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OLE - Classic Feeding - Return Conductor and Earth

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NoviceJames

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I've been learning about OLE recently, just a quick question in relation to the return conductor; does this also act as the earth wire in classic feeding/ booster transformer arrangement?

Or is it the case that the traction return rails act as an earthing point as they are bonded to the OLE structure/ return conductor?

Thanks in advance
 
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goatie

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the Return conductor and boosters is the route the returning current is designed to take, the return rail is there as the pick up point from the train to the Return conductor
with the boosters designed to drop the resistance in the return conductor making it an easy path for returning current
 

Elecman

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in simple terms no there is also ussually an earth conductor also attached to the OLE stanchions. Which are bonded to the running rails as well. The Booster Transformers are there to 'force' the return Traction current into the return conductor and thus reduce Electromagnetic induced currents and other unwanted effects in the signalling cables.
 
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twpsaesneg

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@Elecman - you're obviously in an Earth Wire (EW) area. WCML, ECML, WAML, GE & LTS are all Return Conductor (RC) with no Earth Wire. GWML is EW with RC and boosters (well was, is going over to Auto-Transformer).

Earth wire is bonded to Traction Return Rail (TRR) via impedance bonds every 400m (or 1/4 mile as was), whereas in a non EW area each structure is individually bonded to TRR.

The system will work without RC's - most of the GE was without a functioning RC system due to theft of the old LNER design copper RC. However "hot working" then needs to be implemented for the S&T lads due to induced current in their long line circuits. LTS was the same.

RC is now out of favour (this week!), new systems will generally be either full Auto-Transformer, or "Boosterless Classic" - Lostock Jn to Wigan Station Junction is an example of this. In this case it will have EW's but no RC. The S&T circuits need immunising to prevent induced current to prevent the problems mentioned above.

It's a bit of a black art to be honest, in conjuntion with the dark magic that is Electro-Magnetic Compatibility.
 

GRALISTAIR

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@Elecman - you're obviously in an Earth Wire (EW) area. WCML, ECML, WAML, GE & LTS are all Return Conductor (RC) with no Earth Wire. GWML is EW with RC and boosters (well was, is going over to Auto-Transformer).

Earth wire is bonded to Traction Return Rail (TRR) via impedance bonds every 400m (or 1/4 mile as was), whereas in a non EW area each structure is individually bonded to TRR.

The system will work without RC's - most of the GE was without a functioning RC system due to theft of the old LNER design copper RC. However "hot working" then needs to be implemented for the S&T lads due to induced current in their long line circuits. LTS was the same.

RC is now out of favour (this week!), new systems will generally be either full Auto-Transformer, or "Boosterless Classic" - Lostock Jn to Wigan Station Junction is an example of this. In this case it will have EW's but no RC. The S&T circuits need immunising to prevent induced current to prevent the problems mentioned above.

It's a bit of a black art to be honest, in conjuntion with the dark magic that is Electro-Magnetic Compatibility.

Very useful indeed - thank you :D
 

snowball

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@Elecman - you're obviously in an Earth Wire (EW) area. WCML, ECML, WAML, GE & LTS are all Return Conductor (RC) with no Earth Wire. GWML is EW with RC and boosters (well was, is going over to Auto-Transformer).
Hasn't a lot of the southern half of the WCML goe over to autotransformer?
 

Whistler40145

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Is this the reason that in some locations Booster Transformers are still bolted to masts, but disconnected from the OHLE?
 

NoviceJames

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@Elecman - you're obviously in an Earth Wire (EW) area. WCML, ECML, WAML, GE & LTS are all Return Conductor (RC) with no Earth Wire. GWML is EW with RC and boosters (well was, is going over to Auto-Transformer).

Earth wire is bonded to Traction Return Rail (TRR) via impedance bonds every 400m (or 1/4 mile as was), whereas in a non EW area each structure is individually bonded to TRR.

The system will work without RC's - most of the GE was without a functioning RC system due to theft of the old LNER design copper RC. However "hot working" then needs to be implemented for the S&T lads due to induced current in their long line circuits. LTS was the same.

RC is now out of favour (this week!), new systems will generally be either full Auto-Transformer, or "Boosterless Classic" - Lostock Jn to Wigan Station Junction is an example of this. In this case it will have EW's but no RC. The S&T circuits need immunising to prevent induced current to prevent the problems mentioned above.

It's a bit of a black art to be honest, in conjuntion with the dark magic that is Electro-Magnetic Compatibility.


Thanks a lot, this answers my question! I've read a few sources which showed an Earth Wire, however as I've been traversing LNE there hasn't been such a thing! That explains the black bonds from each structure to the TRR creating the earth.
 

twpsaesneg

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Is this the reason that in some locations Booster Transformers are still bolted to masts, but disconnected from the OHLE?

Depends where you are. Where AT is rolling out (WCML and ECML) it will be because they've not got round to removing them yet; GE and LTS it will be because the RC has been stolen between them so the boosters have been disconnected.

There was a plan to AT GE as well, I can't remember whether this is still happening or not.
 

twpsaesneg

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Yes and slowly going Northwards as well towards Great Strickland

I'm not sure if the Northampton Loop (Project Hilton) has now got the AT earthed down... I'd heard that the vegetation was starting to get to the level where they had to.
 

Whistler40145

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Depends where you are. Where AT is rolling out (WCML and ECML) it will be because they've not got round to removing them yet; GE and LTS it will be because the RC has been stolen between them so the boosters have been disconnected.

There was a plan to AT GE as well, I can't remember whether this is still happening or not.
Sorry, should've said, Wigan North Western
 

bspahh

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There is an interesting thread on twitter which describes "Return Conductors (RCs) and Auto Transformer Feeders (ATFs)" :

 

59CosG95

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There is an interesting thread on twitter which describes "Return Conductors (RCs) and Auto Transformer Feeders (ATFs)" :

Good read that. Although it only covers Return Conductors thus far!
 

59CosG95

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Depends where you are. Where AT is rolling out (WCML and ECML) it will be because they've not got round to removing them yet; GE and LTS it will be because the RC has been stolen between them so the boosters have been disconnected.

There was a plan to AT GE as well, I can't remember whether this is still happening or not.
The AT-in of the GE is still happening between Pudding Mill Lane & Shenfield, as part of Crossrail, which is also covering the GWML between Royal Oak and Maidenhead. When both sides will become operational is anyone's guess!

The ECML AT feeding is only between Welwyn & Hitchin at present; everything between Wood Green & Bawtry (nr Doncaster) has been converted to Boosterless Classic feeding as part of Phase 1 of the ECML PSU. Phase 2 will cover the rest of the route to Edinburgh, but the final scope has yet to be agreed.

As discussed in some of the dedicated PSU (Power Supply Upgrade) threads, the WCML AT-ing programme was scaled back due to 'value engineering' (coincidentally, the same thing happened to the ECML, albeit in the design phase). Currently, North Wembley (the original southern limit) to Bourne End has no functional return wire at all (as all masts are bonded, and a Return Screening Conductor is in the signalling troughs) as Bushey ATFS was mothballed. Some lengths of ATF wire are up in places, however.

Bourne End - Whitmore (and Stone) is complete, Whitmore - Weaver Jn still uses RC/BT, Weaver Jn - Euxton Jn is complete, Euxton Jn - Carnforth still uses RC/BT (but has ATF supports up in sporadic locations), and Carnforth - Great Strickland is complete.
 

59CosG95

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There is a grid feeder at Great Strickland and Catterall. So I assume Catterall feeds Euxton to Carnforth?
Presumably. I believe Crewe feeds Whitmore - Weaver as well. Not a clue where the feeders are north of Stone (thru Stoke-on-Trent, Kidsgrove, Macclesfield, Stockport & onwards to Manchester Piccadilly), but I assume Kidsgrove - Alsager - Crewe is end-fed from Crewe.
 

1978NWUK

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Wow I thought Great Strickland was Penrith. Oxenholme is Nateland?

Great Strickland is an MPATS, Oxenholme is an ATFS. Natland has gone and all that remains is an SSP. Penrith is still functioning as a classic feeder.
 

Whistler40145

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Please excuse my ignorance, which ATF supplies the line via Manchester Piccadilly towards the Chat Moss Line and and towards Euxton Junction?
 
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