Olympian Louis Smith alleges discriminatory VTEC ticket check

[matt_world2004]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-44411414

Virgin Trains has apologised to Olympic gymnast Louis Smith after he claimed staff only checked the tickets of black people in his first class carriage.

Smith, who was the BBC's Strictly Come Dancing champion in 2012, tweeted about the incident on the East Coast train on Thursday evening.

He said only he and one other black passenger were asked to show their tickets.

The company apologised and said it would be investigating the incident.

Smith, who grew up in Peterborough and trained in Huntingdon in Cambridgeshire, documented the incident on his Twitter account as it was happening.

It is understood he was travelling on a train from Peterborough to London King's Cross.

He described it as an "interesting and political" journey when he began tweeting sh
Smith said the member of staff serving refreshments in the first class compartment only asked two people to show their tickets - himself and one other black passenger.

None of the white passengers were asked to prove they had tickets for the carriage, he said...

I do not know if this is true or not, it is possible that what was seen by Louis Smith was taken out of context. With the other people in the carriage being there either before they boarded or they simply didn't see the ticket check take place. On the other hand from experience in my professional and personal life. I know that people hold personal prejudices which can consciously or unconciously effect their decision making process . Again from personal experience it seems mainly the passengers who make judgements based on appearance on who holds a first class ticket.

 

[yorkie]

This does sound like a very concerning incident. I've never seen any of the first class hosts check tickets on VTEC before. It is up to the Guard (or revenue staff) to do that.

The majority of the first class hosts are very good or excellent, but there are a small number of them who fall well below the expected standard but I never thought any of them would do something like this.

 

[Haywain]

This does sound like a very concerning incident. I've never seen any of the first class hosts check tickets on VTEC before. It is up to the Guard (or revenue staff) to do that.

It's a long, long time since I've seen it happen, and I've travelled in first class a great deal in recent years. This sounds absolutely appalling, and I have no doubt it will be dealt with properly.

 

[6Gman]

Initially I wondered if, perhaps, they were the only two passengers to board at Peterborough and the Host had already seen the tickets of the other passengers ... BUT ... he is quoted as saying "it's up to me who I ask" ...

Ouch!

Looks like a serious disciplinary at face value.

 

[YorkshireBear]

If you read the article it appeared the 1st class host was dishing out the complimentary tea and coffee. He went down the whole carriage only asked the two black people in the carriage for their tickets to prove they should be in first class and did not ask anyone else. This was confronted by someone in the carriage and escalated to the train manager. It appears the train manager and the twitter team (the incident was tweeted by olympian Louis Smith) dealt with it quickly in terms of the company response.

If events did actually proceed as told by Louis Smith then that is rather concerning.

For the purpose of clarity, there clearly is not all the information required to make a judgement based on the article as has been pointed out below.

 

[bradders1983]

Initially I wondered if, perhaps, they were the only two passengers to board at Peterborough and the Host had already seen the tickets of the other passengers ... BUT ... he is quoted as saying "it's up to me who I ask" ...

Ouch!

Looks like a serious disciplinary at face value.

As already said, it is not up to the "host" to do ticket checks anyway

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Non story what isn’t to say that they were the only two first class customers who boarded the train at Peterborough and the host already checked the other customers tickets on departure from Kings Cross.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Non story what isn’t to say that they were the only two first class customers who boarded the train at Peterborough and the host already checked the other customers tickets on departure from Kings Cross.

Indeed hence my, if it is as told by Louis Smith comment on the end. That was one piece of information clearly missing. Id be surprised if only two got in that carriage at Peterborough. Always seen healthy loadings on that section in First Class.

 

[Spartacus]

Yeah, I was thinking a similar thing, it's quite normal for the host in FC on TPE to ask to check someone's ticket before serving the free tea and biscuits simply due to the large numbers of standard class ticket holders who try it on in FC, and usually I'm the only one being checked where I get on because I'm usually the only one going into FC from there. Technically it might not be part of their job description, but I don't suppose there's anything stopping them, I could decide to walk up and ask everyone in FC the same, and they'd be perfectly within their rights to decline as they would be with the host. If they were banned from asking then I suppose half the train might dive in demanding free tea & biscuits.

For me any accusations of racism would largely hinge on if anyone else boarded that carriage at Peterborough. If not, or if the only others who did were regulars and known to the host, then their actions seem perfectly correct. If that wasn't the case and other passengers boarded who the host didn't know were FC ticket holders then I'd be asking them some very awkward questions.

With only half the facts it's impossible to say.

 

[ianBR]

Having been on the receiving end of a first class host trying to tell me my ticket wasn't valid when it was the sooner they are stopped from checking tickets the better. Either that or they should be receiving full training on ticketing, routing guides and conditions of carriage

 

[LowLevel]

At most TOCs first class hosts are in charge of ticket inspections in first class as this gives more time for the TM to check tickets in standard where there is often no other employee.

Not on VTEC where the TM does all ticket checks and the first class hosts do service only.

 

[rebmcr]

I suspect the reason that the BBC have picked this up is the tweet near the end:

I have spoken to the Train Manager on this service at length about what has happened and there will be a complaint logged and investigated.

'Logging an investigation after speaking at length' suggests there is something to it other than hot air. Good work by the TM and Twitter team regardless!

 

[^BG]

Good work by the TM and Twitter team regardless!

Thank you kindly. It wasn't until his last tweet that he tagged us in, so I didn't get wind of it until it had already gained some attention but I worked as quickly as possible.

 

[rebmcr]

Thank you kindly.

You're welcome! I much prefer your style of good communication, and specifically openness when you're allowed, over tinned "operational incident" catchalls.

 

[najaB]

I've TWB* with VTEC in First Class quite a few times and never had my ticket checked by the host. Very concerning if it is as reported.

*Travelled while black.

 

[Rail Blues]

Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this, but it is worth noting that I've seen at first hand the reactions of people in 'authority' being sharply different with black people or other minorities.

In a previous job a black colleague had a nice car and would sometimes give a lift home latish at night. Funny how often we 'just happened' to be stopped by the police and how the officer seemed to be be borderline rude/aggressive. The unspoken assumption being that a) this isn't your car or b) if it is your car you've done something nefarious to get the money to buy it.

 

[PeterC]

Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this, but it is worth noting that I've seen at first hand the reactions of people in 'authority' being sharply different with black people or other minorities. In a previous job a black colleague had a nice car and would sometimes give a lift home latish at night. Funny how often we 'just happened' to be stopped by the police and how the officer seemed to be be borderline rude/aggressive. The unspoken assumption being that a) this isn't your car or b) if it is your car you've done something nefarious to get the money to buy it.

Reminds me of when the "ring of steel" was put round the City of London following IRA bombings. Based on the majority of vehicles I saw being checked I still don't understand how there can be so many black Irishmen in the country when all the ones that I meet are white.

 

[sheff1]

Non story what isn’t to say that they were the only two first class customers who boarded the train at Peterborough and the host already checked the other customers tickets on departure from Kings Cross.

If, as reported, the train was headng south it is absolutely certain that the host had not checked other customers tickets on departure from Kings Cross.

 

[SussexMan]

Non story....

Please confirm how you know it to be a non story.

 

[BeHereNow]

I'm sure those passenger "arrived awesome". Awful awful awful. Good on Louis Smith for raising it.

 

[Deafdoggie]

XC hosts check tickets, but only that they are 1st class, before they give the freebies out, and that is fair enough. They don't check anything else about it is valid, but the TM will do a 'proper' check too. If the host has any concerns about the validity they raise it with the TM not the passenger. But I have never known a Virgin host (WC or EC) do a ticket check of any type.

 

[Warwick]

I've TWB* with VTEC in First Class quite a few times and never had my ticket checked by the host. Very concerning if it is as reported.

*Travelled while black.

"Travelled while black". Do you change colour like a Chameleon?

 

[najaB]

"Travelled while black". Do you change colour like a Chameleon?

No. But sometimes it feels like doing anything 'while black' makes it suspect (or criminal).

Fortunately I've experienced it less here than in other countries, for the experience turned up to 11 just witness recent events in the USA. Black people have had the police called on them because: they were waiting for a friend in Starbucks, were sleeping in the common area of their own university dorm, were driving 'too nice' a car, were seen putting stuff in the boot of their car, and so on.

 

[ag51ruk]

XC hosts check tickets, but only that they are 1st class, before they give the freebies out, and that is fair enough. They don't check anything else about it is valid, but the TM will do a 'proper' check too. If the host has any concerns about the validity they raise it with the TM not the passenger. But I have never known a Virgin host (WC or EC) do a ticket check of any type.

There is at least one Service Manager on VTWC who consistently checks tickets in First while taking orders for food - so it does happen, although may not be officially sanctioned.

 

[greyman42]

There is at least one Service Manager on VTWC who consistently checks tickets in First while taking orders for food - so it does happen, although may not be officially sanctioned.

A friend of mine tells me that VTEC hosts do check tickets in first class so that they know how far passengers are travelling, and so that they know what food they are entitled to.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I don't have a problem with it...but if they are doing it, they need to do it with everybody!

 

[najaB]

I don't have a problem with it...but if they are doing it, they need to do it with everybody!

Agreed.

 

[Rail Blues]

Agreed.

Agree, hosts checking or not checking tickets is neither here nor there. Either check everyone's ticket or check no one's ticket.

 

[voyagerdude220]

A little off topic, but I was once in First Class on a VWC service on a Sunday. I held a Standard anytime ticket, which allowed me to sit in First Class for free, subject to availability etc. The gentleman serving First Class passengers checked my ticket and said I had to move to Standard, which I refused to, as it was valid. Also it was a pair of Super Voyagers, with myself and the catering man in the front set, with the Train Manager on the rear set, so the catering man wouldn't have even been able to sell me the weekend first class upgrade, which I would have been perfectly entitled to do. About ten minutes later, the catering man returned and said he had contacted the Train Manager, who said I was perfectly fine to stay in First Class, so the catering man reluctantly served me eventually. Not a single word of apology and the catering man even accused me of being cheeky, when I simply asked what method he would use, should myself, or any other passengers require to upgrade to weekend first, when he doesn't have the means to take payment, or issue upgrades.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So I didn't misunderstand, it seems, so I'm reposting.

Louis Smith's skin tone is very light for a black person - no doubt that is his ethnicity, but it wasn't until I read several of the articles that I realised he was one of the people concerned, and hadn't just observed it. My skin tone is not much lighter than his (in summer when I get tanned possibly about the same) and I'm just mostly English and a small part (1/8 I think, I forget how it's defined) Welsh. (Mind you there might be a bit of melanin in there from somewhere as the bits of me used to getting the sun don't burn even without sun tan lotion - I almost never use it).

That being the case, I wonder if it might in his case have just been a judgement that he looked a bit "rough" to be in 1st? He sort of does with the short hair and style of beard. Doesn't make it acceptable of course - if a ticket check is being carried out it should be of everyone - but it does suggest that they may not actually have been *racist*, just discriminatory in another way.

I've certainly had the same thing when I was younger, slightly scruffily dressed and possibly with a rucksack (and a valid 1st ticket).