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Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

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danm14

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The Times is reporting that face masks will likely remain legally required beyond January 26th.


Facemasks are likely to remain a legal requirement on public transport and indoors but work from home guidance and vaccine passports are expected to be scrapped at the end of the month.
 
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brad465

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The Times is reporting that face masks will likely remain legally required beyond January 26th.

Given the perilous position Johnson is in, and was almost in when Plan B was brought in, I think he'd struggle to keep face mask mandates much longer than January 26th, especially if cases continue to drop after everything else is relaxed.
 

Class 33

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I really don't know how he could justify keeping that face mask nonsense after 26th January. There is still a bit of time that he could change his mind on this. But if not, the press and media really should be challenging him about the reasons for this nonsense continuing. We need to move on from this nonsense for good now sooner rather than later.
 

NorthKent1989

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I really don't know how he could justify keeping that face mask nonsense after 26th January. There is still a bit of time that he could change his mind on this. But if not, the press and media really should be challenging him about the reasons for this nonsense continuing. We need to move on from this nonsense for good now sooner rather than later.

Agreed, 2022 should be the year we leave behind this Covid nonsense in the history books.
 

nedchester

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Given the perilous position Johnson is in, and was almost in when Plan B was brought in, I think he'd struggle to keep face mask mandates much longer than January 26th, especially if cases continue to drop after everything else is relaxed.

If face coverings remained as law beyond 26th Jan then Plan B won’t have finished?
 

danm14

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If face coverings remained as law beyond 26th Jan then Plan B won’t have finished?
I assume they will be retained on public transport and in retail only (as was the case from 30 Nov - 10 Dec) and removed elsewhere, with a nebulous claim that Plan B was only introduced on 10 Dec and the restrictions have returned to what they were on 9 Dec.

Either that or the regulations will be lifted - returning to the status quo of 19 Jul - 29 Nov - but with guidance going beyond "expected and recommended" to say that they are still mandatory
 

yorkie

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The Times is reporting that face masks will likely remain legally required beyond January 26th.
That would be disgraceful if so; I hope many more people declare themselves exempt, which anyone can do.

I don't understand why public transport keeps being picked on like this. If there is no requirement to wear a face covering in a pub, and if a face covering can be any old flimsy thing that is totally ineffective (as opposed to an effective FFP2/3 or equivalent) then there is no reason for it.

If this happens I very much hope that many people declare themselves to be exempt and don't go along with this absolute nonsense.

Don't forget the people who dicate this rubbish are unlikely to travel on public transport much themselvs, and they are also unlikely to go round supermarkets doing their own shopping either. We should not let them get away with treating us like mugs!
 

nedchester

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That would be disgraceful if so; I hope many more people declare themselves exempt, which anyone can do.

I don't understand why public transport keeps being picked on like this. If there is no requirement to wear a face covering in a pub, and if a face covering can be any old flimsy thing that is totally ineffective (as opposed to an effective FFP2/3 or equivalent) then there is no reason for it.

If this happens I very much hope that many people declare themselves to be exempt and don't go along with this absolute nonsense.

Don't forget the people who dicate this rubbish are unlikely to travel on public transport much themselvs, and they are also unlikely to go round supermarkets doing their own shopping either. We should not let them get away with treating us like mugs!

I’d be tended to agree with this. I actually think that the continuing of wearing face coverings when they are not really necessary (or have minimal effect due to them not being used properly or proper masks) then it prolongs the fear for some.

I assume they will be retained on public transport and in retail only (as was the case from 30 Nov - 10 Dec) and removed elsewhere, with a nebulous claim that Plan B was only introduced on 10 Dec and the restrictions have returned to what they were on 9 Dec.

Either that or the regulations will be lifted - returning to the status quo of 19 Jul - 29 Nov - but with guidance going beyond "expected and recommended" to say that they are still mandatory

They could say they are mandatory without the force of the law.

Personally I think they will go with what was in place prior to Nov 30th
 

Smidster

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I expect masks to remain for at least the next six weeks - It is obvious they do absolutely nothing against Omicron but tough to completely remove all restrictions while hospital numbers still high (even considering incidental admissions)

Where it gets interesting is if cases continue to plummet and we are back say under 30k next week then hopefully the questions start to move toward "why continue with the restriction" rather than "why remove the restriction" though sadly the push would still be to keep facial decorations
 

island

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It looks like a few different variations on the theme have been selectively leaked to see what the public/media reaction will be.

Sadly, as there is little vocal opposition to face coverings outside of forums like this, I fear we will be stuck with them for another while, at the very least in retail and public transport.
 

duncanp

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It looks like a few different variations on the theme have been selectively leaked to see what the public/media reaction will be.

Sadly, as there is little vocal opposition to face coverings outside of forums like this, I fear we will be stuck with them for another while, at the very least in retail and public transport.

The version which has been leaked to the Daily Express says that compulsory face masks on public transport and in shops will be abolished on January 26th.

There may be little vocal opposition in general to face coverings, but the level of public compliance is falling day by day, in my experience.

So the government may decide that there is little point in keeping the regulations on face coverings, especially if it needs to improve its performance in the opinion polls.
 

DelayRepay

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So the government may decide that there is little point in keeping the regulations on face coverings, especially if it needs to improve its performance in the opinion polls.
And also if it means avoiding another House of Commons vote where they may need to rely on Labour support. I believe this is required within 28 days because the previous one expires on 26 Jan, along with the other Plan B measures.

I believe we'll move back to 'Recommends and Expects', whatever that means.
 

greyman42

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Some of the press seams to be reporting that restrictions will end on the 26th January EXCEPT for the requirement to wear masks on public transport and in shops.
Regarding masks, I think that that is what the likes of the BBC and Sky is hoping for.
 

danm14

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And also if it means avoiding another House of Commons vote where they may need to rely on Labour support. I believe this is required within 28 days because the previous one expires on 26 Jan, along with the other Plan B measures.
"Three more weeks", anyone?
 

LAX54

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If face coverings remained as law beyond 26th Jan then Plan B won’t have finished?
But with more and more 'Scientists' etc saying that actually the mask scenario is almost as waste of time, the U.S saying do not wear cloth ones, Germany (at least) banning them, how much longer can they survive ? there also seem to be more just wearing them to 'comply', and wear them all wrong, use them too much, instead of throwing them away, under chin, under nose etc etc...there seems little point.
 

Bungle73

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Reports in the media suggest Plan B measures may be lifted by end of January. With TOCs running reduced timetables, how will they cope if the wfh advice is no longer in place and people start using the railways like before?
Well Southeastern have already started re-introducing services. Which makes it odd that, according to news, other TOCs have started reducing them. :s


A temporary timetable has been introduced on South Western Railway due to staff shortages because of the Omicron variant of Covid-19. From today, there will no longer be direct trains from Weymouth to London.
 
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Baxenden Bank

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But with more and more 'Scientists' etc saying that actually the mask scenario is almost as waste of time, the U.S saying do not wear cloth ones, Germany (at least) banning them, how much longer can they survive ? there also seem to be more just wearing them to 'comply', and wear them all wrong, use them too much, instead of throwing them away, under chin, under nose etc etc...there seems little point.
People want their dummy to suck. It makes them feel safe. Regardless of evidence of effectiveness (of the home-made varieties, used by untrained individuals, in uncontrolled settings).

But if the government says on 26th January: "hey, guess what folks, those masks were pretty pointless all along" how will people feel? (A - I guess the whole range from not bothered, never wore one or didn't mind wearing one anyway to rather angry).

What is the government / SAGE's way out from masks, other than letting the idea slowly wither on the vine? Remove mandation at a suitable point (cases declining rapidly, no new variant), remove 'recommendation' sometime later, after that simply stop talking about them at all and they will slowly go away and be forgotten about?
 

Jonny

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And also if it means avoiding another House of Commons vote where they may need to rely on Labour support. I believe this is required within 28 days because the previous one expires on 26 Jan, along with the other Plan B measures.

I believe we'll move back to 'Recommends and Expects', whatever that means.
Which, perhaps by design, is not worth the paper that it isn't written on.
 

Bantamzen

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People want their dummy to suck. It makes them feel safe. Regardless of evidence of effectiveness (of the home-made varieties, used by untrained individuals, in uncontrolled settings).

But if the government says on 26th January: "hey, guess what folks, those masks were pretty pointless all along" how will people feel? (A - I guess the whole range from not bothered, never wore one or didn't mind wearing one anyway to rather angry).

What is the government / SAGE's way out from masks, other than letting the idea slowly wither on the vine? Remove mandation at a suitable point (cases declining rapidly, no new variant), remove 'recommendation' sometime later, after that simply stop talking about them at all and they will slowly go away and be forgotten about?
To me this seems the most likely outcome, remove legal mandation, recommend them and let the public lose interest save those wanting to keep on wearing them.
 

Smidster

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To me this seems the most likely outcome, remove legal mandation, recommend them and let the public lose interest save those wanting to keep on wearing them.

Which is of course pretty much exactly what happened in July and it became the "Government expects you to"

The numbers wearing them gradually reduced over time to the point that come November, and restrictions were brought back, mask wearers were very definitely in the minority in most places and at most times.

I would expect the drop-off to be quicker this time given where we are with vaccines and the sheer number who have had Omicron.
 

John Luxton

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It looks like a few different variations on the theme have been selectively leaked to see what the public/media reaction will be.

Sadly, as there is little vocal opposition to face coverings outside of forums like this, I fear we will be stuck with them for another while, at the very least in retail and public transport.
There is this current petition which could do with a few more signatures. Revoke compulsory wearing of facemasks on public transport and in shops - Petitions (parliament.uk)
 

bramling

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Well Southeastern have already started re-introducing services. Which makes it odd that, according to news, other TOCs have started reducing them. :s


In my view a lot of the service reductions were premature. It was obvious at the time some of the absence in late December and early January was due to people taking the opportunity to have Christmas off.

If WFH ends on the 26th then a return to the December timetable will be necessary.
 

Class 33

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Am I mistaken or was this not also being reported in the run up to July 19th, only for them to cease to be mandatory but remain recommended?

Well originally the end of all restrictions last year was supposed to be 21st June. Though that got delayed until 19th July! My recollection from certainly a few weeks before 21st June was there were reports that mandatory face mask restrictions may still remain and even additionally social distancing restrictions may still remain. However by 2 weeks before 19th July it was confirmed that both these restrictions WOULD be scrapped. A quick Google search confirms this.

The different and worrying thing now is that we're now within 10 days of when hopefully all "Plan B" restrictions will be scrapped. But apart from just that Express article which says all "Plan B" restrictions(including face masks) are to be scrapped, all the other reports are saying that mandatory face masks on public transport, in shops, etc "WILL REMAIN". This has changed from recent days when reports mentioned that face mask restrictions "MAY REMAIN". So it's not looking good is it. Looks like they're going to keep this nonsense dragging on for at least a bit longer. Absolutely ridiculous. Javid did tell us 6 weeks ago now "That if the Omicron variant is found to be no more severe than the Delta variant then these restrictions can be scrapped IMMEDIATELY" and "We won't keep these restrictions going for a moment longer than necessary.". Looks like he lied to us!
 
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DelayRepay

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Well Southeastern have already started re-introducing services. Which makes it odd that, according to news, other TOCs have started reducing them. :s

Could this just be because the area where Southeastern operate (and presumably most of their staff live) is further ahead on the curve than other parts of the land, so they are seeing fewer issues with staff isolating now than they were a few weeks ago?
 

yorkie

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We mustn't forget that every time masks have been mandated, a rise in cases has followed. When masks ceased to be mandated from 19th July, cases plummeted.

Similar patterns have occurred elsewhere. It is absolutely clear that case rates are not going to be affected by whether or not masks are mandated. 99% of people wear flimsy masks to be seen to be complying with the mandate, rather than effective masks that would actually make any difference.

Omicron is so fit and contagious that anyone without sufficient immunity can only delay the inevitable rather than avoid it; anyone in such a position can choose to wear an effective FFP2/3 mask if they wish and it would make no difference to them what other people do or don't wear.

John Campbell has released another video:

Boosters, can be done once, or maybe twice, but it’s not something that we can think should be repeated constantly
We need to think about how we can transition from the current pandemic setting to a more endemic setting
With omicron there will be a lot of natural immunity taking place on top of vaccination, We will be fastly moving to a scenario which is close to endemicity
Fourth dose for all Data has not yet been generated to support this approach
Repeated vaccinations in a short time frame will not represent a sustainable long term strategy
Endemic Covid, very soon...

The zero covid believers and cold hearted brigade on social media are up in arms at this, but most respectable experts do agree that Sars-CoV-2 is becoming endemic and we have no choice but to live with the virus, with the endgame being a state of endemic equilibrium.

I've been saying this for a long time; I thought it was the most likely outcome once the virus reached us and I did some research and I have become more and more convinced at this eventuality as time went on, for example over 14 months ago I was convinced at this being the only way out of the epidemic, and indeed I posted this:
I think talk of "herd immunity" is probably best avoided as different people use it to mean different things. I think it's probably better to talk about reaching endemic equilibrium....
....On the subject of immunity you clearly have a huge misunderstanding about a naturally occurring phenomenon; this virus is going to approach epidemic equilibrium at some point; it's an undeniable fact.....
People tried to discredit me and disbelieve me at the time. But it's happening; there is no denying it now.

We don't know how Omicron evolved (maybe in humans, maybe in mice) but it's been an absolutely fantastic development. While the last few weeks have been problematic due to the sheer number of cases, it's been an absolute gift towards reaching the end of the epidemic stage, in a timely manner.

Endemic equilibrium does mean a surge will occur seasonally and for the first few seasons it will be greater than the levels we will likely have in a few years time; we may have another surge before next Winter and we almost certainly will see a significant number of 'cases' again in the winter of 2022-23 but we just have to accept that, and live our lives as normal, just as we would do in a year when there is a lot of 'flu circulating.

Some people really don't want the epidemic to end; the likes of Greenhalgh and co are milking it and are not looking forward to the day when the media are no longer interested in their scaremongering. And I am very much looking forward to that!
 

nw1

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We mustn't forget that every time masks have been mandated, a rise in cases has followed. When masks ceased to be mandated from 19th July, cases plummeted.

Similar patterns have occurred elsewhere. It is absolutely clear that case rates are not going to be affected by whether or not masks are mandated. 99% of people wear flimsy masks to be seen to be complying with the mandate, rather than effective masks that would actually make any difference.

Omicron is so fit and contagious that anyone without sufficient immunity can only delay the inevitable rather than avoid it; anyone in such a position can choose to wear an effective FFP2/3 mask if they wish and it would make no difference to them what other people do or don't wear.

John Campbell has released another video:



The zero covid believers and cold hearted brigade on social media are up in arms at this, but most respectable experts do agree that Sars-CoV-2 is becoming endemic and we have no choice but to live with the virus, with the endgame being a state of endemic equilibrium.

I've been saying this for a long time; I thought it was the most likely outcome once the virus reached us and I did some research and I have become more and more convinced at this eventuality as time went on, for example over 14 months ago I was convinced at this being the only way out of the epidemic, and indeed I posted this:


People tried to discredit me and disbelieve me at the time. But it's happening; there is no denying it now.

We don't know how Omicron evolved (maybe in humans, maybe in mice) but it's been an absolutely fantastic development. While the last few weeks have been problematic due to the sheer number of cases, it's been an absolute gift towards reaching the end of the epidemic stage, in a timely manner.

Endemic equilibrium does mean a surge will occur seasonally and for the first few seasons it will be greater than the levels we will likely have in a few years time; we may have another surge before next Winter and we almost certainly will see a significant number of 'cases' again in the winter of 2022-23 but we just have to accept that, and live our lives as normal, just as we would do in a year when there is a lot of 'flu circulating.
Indeed the 1999/2000 millennium flu is well known for its severity, and was something I personally suffered from. Unlike any other viral illness I have had as an adult, it was enough to keep me in bed for three days (Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day...) as a fit and healthy twenty-something, and I understand there was a high hospitalisation rate from this outbreak. However life carried on as normal in 1999, so presumably life should carry on as normal in the next few winters.
 
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Mojo

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Sadly, as there is little vocal opposition to face coverings outside of forums like this, I fear we will be stuck with them for another while, at the very least in retail and public transport.
Agreed. Remember even on the Plan B votes in Parliament before Christmas the number of opponents from the Conservative backbenchers was quite small for the expansion of masks (they were expanded to settings such as theatres, museums, etc.) compared to the opponents for Vaccine Passports. Even David Davis, who has been quite outspoken over the restrictions, backed them, saying on the news that morning that he would support them due to public opinion and people not thinking it was a big deal.

I'm still of the belief that the only reason masks were dropped on July 19th is because of government research advising of the £4bn economic cost of face masks. The majority of this included things like mandating them for events such as theatres, concerts, football matches etc., with a significant number advising that they would actively avoid events that required masks to be worn in excess of 2 hours. Given this, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them retained on public transport and in shops, but dropped for discretionary venues such as museums, cinemas etc. Of course this time they weren’t mandated in restaurants and cafes, and even the guidance doesn’t say you should wear one there (except in take-a-ways with no space to eat in), but I still see a fair number wearing them in such venues.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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That would be disgraceful if so; I hope many more people declare themselves exempt, which anyone can do.

I don't understand why public transport keeps being picked on like this. If there is no requirement to wear a face covering in a pub, and if a face covering can be any old flimsy thing that is totally ineffective (as opposed to an effective FFP2/3 or equivalent) then there is no reason for it.

If this happens I very much hope that many people declare themselves to be exempt and don't go along with this absolute nonsense.

Don't forget the people who dicate this rubbish are unlikely to travel on public transport much themselvs, and they are also unlikely to go round supermarkets doing their own shopping either. We should not let them get away with treating us like mugs!
They need something visibly to show they are still doing something to keep the indie sage types suppressed and given how few people use public transport affects very few people so doesn't cost them politically.
In my view a lot of the service reductions were premature. It was obvious at the time some of the absence in late December and early January was due to people taking the opportunity to have Christmas off.

If WFH ends on the 26th then a return to the December timetable will be necessary.
Some operators clearly had longer planning timescales than others and by teh time they've got around to implementing them there not necessary. SWR was running nigh on 99%+ planned services everyday last week outside of incidents. Now im sure there was plenty of staff volunteering for extra shifts to keep service going but concern now is how quickly will SWR be allowed to reinstate services. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Dec 22 timetable implemented in May.
 
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