Omitting station calls, to recover service

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Skimpot flyer

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We all know certain TOCs are regularly in the habit of omitting station calls on late-running services, to make up some time, but I wanted to do some research on this. Am I right in thinking that this train omitted calls at Knebworth, Welwyn North, Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield and Potters Bar ? Or am I a bit thick ? :lol:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G72044/2016/07/01/advanced

I know it cannot physically have called at WGC if it was, as shown, travelling on the fast line, as the up and down fasts there have no platforms !
 
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farci

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Pardon my amateur ignorance but is this the same as when Scotrail starts a train not at the timetabled origin but at another station down the line?
 

Hadders

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Taking the OP's example and considering Knebworth. The train was due to call Knebworth at 2114 but it was 30 minutes late. There is a 2144 departure from Knebworth (ok it was 7 minutes late at Knebworth but some of that was probably due to it following the train that was 30 minutes late)

Sensible decision to omit Knebworth and attempt to recover some of the service. Anyone on board the late train could have changed at Stevenage.
 

route:oxford

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Pardon my amateur ignorance but is this the same as when Scotrail starts a train not at the timetabled origin but at another station down the line?

Almost, someone will correct me, but I'm sure that stopping short and turning round is called something specific that escapes me right now.

I know what you mean though. That annoying moment, when on a Glasgow to Dunblane service, when you feel it suddenly sway to the right on the approach to Stirling with the announcement "This service will terminate here", "Please change to Platform 2" for services to Dunblane and Bridge of Allan".

A friend organised a sit-in on a service that did that one evening - where the Dunblane and BofA passengers refused to disembark. After a stand-off and threats to call BTP (who would take at least an hour to come from Glasgow or Edinburgh), the decision was made to run the service North.
 

Carntyne

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Pardon my amateur ignorance but is this the same as when Scotrail starts a train not at the timetabled origin but at another station down the line?

Yeah, you are best to start a train RT somewhere than have it running around causing further delays to other services.
 

47271

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A favourite device on the Edinburgh-Glasgow shuttle, and it can have its benefits.

Always a pleasant surprise when you turn up at Waverley for the next train and find the last one hasn't left yet, will run non stop from Haymarket, shave 10 minutes off your travel time, and you get there 20 minutes earlier than you planned!
 

yorkie

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A good decision.
Taking the OP's example and considering Knebworth. The train was due to call Knebworth at 2114 but it was 30 minutes late. There is a 2144 departure from Knebworth (ok it was 7 minutes late at Knebworth but some of that was probably due to it following the train that was 30 minutes late)

Sensible decision to omit Knebworth and attempt to recover some of the service. Anyone on board the late train could have changed at Stevenage.
Absolutely right. The train behind it was on time until it was held at the junction just before Hitchin. If there had been 2 platforms at Hitchin, it would have remained on time!
 

PHILIPE

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It's a daily occurrence on the Cardiff Valley Network, where with trains passing through Cardiff with 5 minutes between them, there would be a huge shambles resulting only in further catastrophic delay. Trains would be standing waiting traincrew who were on a delayed train, further delaying trains stuck behind them. Passengers complain about missing stops, of course. It's not a simple case of trying to get one train back on time, but avoiding the reaction.
Back to another area, I have posted this on the Forum before, but there was an evening commuter train from Birmingham to Hereford which was consistently late. LM would terminate the train at Ledbury to turn back right time and leave masses of passengers stranded there, sometimes on a cold dark and wet winter night with just a small shelter and wait for the next train an hour later. This eventually came to a head when one night, as if pre-arranged, passengers refused to leave the train necessitating the attendance of police. They still didn't budge leaving the only available option of sending the train onto Hereford. There had to be a re-think after this even if it meant delaying the return from Hereford.
 

Harbornite

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This happened to me about a week ago, our london midland unit skipped stops at all stations between Uni and Longbridge.
 

Class377/5

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We all know certain TOCs are regularly in the habit of omitting station calls on late-running services, to make up some time, but I wanted to do some research on this. Am I right in thinking that this train omitted calls at Knebworth, Welwyn North, Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield and Potters Bar ? Or am I a bit thick ? :lol:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G72044/2016/07/01/advanced

I know it cannot physically have called at WGC if it was, as shown, travelling on the fast line, as the up and down fasts there have no platforms !

It's a process that that doesn't just happen with certain TOC but all TOCS. Even BR did it. Other than cancelling a service completely there no way to get trains/staff back on track (so to speak).
 

kdoganorak

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Happens regularly on GTR of course

e.g.

Sevenoaks services fast from Blackfriars to Bromley South

LBG to VIC fast new cross gate to crystal palace

Sometimes I wish they would skip a couple of stops to avoid overcrowding. E.g. if half hourly service running 28 min late, next service running on time, first service gets 2x number of people trying to get on, starts to delay service behind (which is half empty) due to difficulties closing the doors.

Skipping a couple of stops would force a proprtion of passengers to get on the one 2 mins behind, avoiding the further delays from overcrowding.

Being sensible I usually wait for the next one but unfortunately I am one of very few
 

infobleep

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Is PINE used for services starting short as well?

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lejog

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This happens in times of late running on the Calder Valley line, when services are rerouted non-stop between Leeds and Hebden Bridge (and vice versa) via Dewsbury, by-passing the major town of Halifax and the city of Bradford! Saves around 20min though.
 
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LBSCR Times

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This happens in times of late running on the Calder Valley line, when services are rerouted non-stop between Leeds and Hebden Bridge (and vice versa) via Dewsbury, by-passing the major town of Halifax and the city of Bradford! Saves around 20min though.

Many of the services only have 6 - 8 minutes at Manchester Victoria, before heading back to Leeds.
Control's have to work with the resources they have.
If there is a spare unit (or one with a long layover) and a starting crew, then the service can be recovered. However, if the crew work in and back out, then there isn't much option but to run fast or divert.
The reasons why there aren't resources is another matter, but on the day, it's a case of what is best for the majority of the passengers.
 

ivanhoe

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It happened yesterday on Liverpool Nottingham service, 16.52 from Liverpool. Unfortunately, a passenger had become unwell on the Manchester to Sheffield stopper and that train was held at Dore awaiting an ambulance. The EMT service omitted Sheffield and went straight to Chesterfield. All Sheffield passengers where then able to catch a Northern Service into Sheffield, after only a wait of 5 minutes. Meanwhile, an EMT London service was delayed at Sheffield to allow passengers who wished to travel to Nottingham, to catch the service at Chesterfield which was held for the connection. In all, it was well executed and passengers were kept well informed. Well done to everybody concerned and hopefully the passenger who became ill ,is making a good recovery.
 

Polarbear

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Merseyrail are also quite adept at the art of skip-stopping or cancelling services to make up time & get trains back on correct diagrams.

On the Chester service, it's often due to the very short turn-around at the likes of Chester (4 Minutes typically) which don't give much, if any margin should things go buns up during the day.
 

Dr_Paul

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Several times I've been on late-running Waterloo to Waterloo via Teddington trains that have run non-stop to Waterloo from Kingston (when running up via Wimbledon), and once on one that ran non-stop from Richmond to Waterloo via Putney (the other way around the loop). This service normally stops at all stations. As I was going to Waterloo, I was quite happy with this; passengers going to stations in between had to alight and wait for another stopping service, although they had to wait only a few minutes. A couple of times I've been on the same service that ran fast from Waterloo to Norbiton, on both occasions it ran down the down fast to New Malden, then crossed to the down slow then off on to the line to Kingston and Teddington. It must be added that clear and repeated announcements were made at both stations and on the train to advise passengers to alight if they wished to go to intermediate stations.
 

infobleep

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From memory that is CALVIN but stand to be corrected.

Good the see the railway telegraph codes being quoted in this digital age :)
I actually have a book of railway telegraph codes. I could have looked it up!

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JohnR

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First Scotrail used to do this a lot north of Dundee. If a service was more than 10 minutes late at Dundee, it would omit all stops until Aberdeen. Usually involving a longish wait (40 minutes) for commuters, and of course a service that was standing-room only due to the passengers who had to change at Dundee.

Glad to say that this policy seemed to change when Abellio took over. (fingers crossed).
 

tsr

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Between the parallel lines

D1009

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From the days of the telegraph codes, the one I remember was GAFMO, but that one wasn't official.;)

Last week I travelled on the South Eastern high speed service from Ashford, and because we were 20 late, they made it non stop to St Pancras. We went through Ebbsfleet without me noticing, but because we caught up a service from North Kent approaching Stratford, we didn't make up any time.
 
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