On-train catering

[PupCuff]

I can understand your thinking but the day doesn't start and end on the train. The crew have to get ready for the day, e. g. order any stock they might need, and at the end of the day, dispose of wasted stock.

It sounds as though you're describing how you think a service centre should be run rather than how one is actually run.

From what you've posted I think you're mixing up service centre staff and catering crews. The service centre staff are the staff that work the service centre, ie do the service centre ordering, dispose of waste products, fill urns etc (where used), prepare any freshly baked products (where used), do pre-service checks on trolleys (where used), deliver stock to trains etc. The catering crews are the staff that work on the train running the buffet cars, trolleys, first class catering etc, rather than doing any of the service centre ordering/wasting etc. It's not usual for the same staff to do both duties although perhaps it happens somewhere.

Catering crews wouldn't routinely order stock to a train they haven't got onto yet because otherwise you might get on and find that there's already loads of it on there and then you'd have wasted the service centre peoples' time bringing it to the train - you'll never be able to sell it all, you'll have nowhere to put it, so it's just going to have to come off again at the next service centre and all you've really achieved is a very expensive and unnecessary transfer of stock from one centre to another. Additionally a catering crew member might start their diagram at a location where there isn't a service centre (using the example of XC you've mentioned above, there aren't XC service centres at Manchester, Leeds or Bournemouth, but catering crews start and end their diagrams there) so there's no benefit to them ordering stock before they get on the train anyway.

 

[NoOnesFool]

It sounds as though you're describing how you think a service centre should be run rather than how one is actually run.

From what you've posted I think you're mixing up service centre staff and catering crews. The service centre staff are the staff that work the service centre, ie do the service centre ordering, dispose of waste products, fill urns etc (where used), prepare any freshly baked products (where used), do pre-service checks on trolleys (where used), deliver stock to trains etc. The catering crews are the staff that work on the train running the buffet cars, trolleys, first class catering etc, rather than doing any of the service centre ordering/wasting etc. It's not usual for the same staff to do both duties although perhaps it happens somewhere.

Catering crews wouldn't routinely order stock to a train they haven't got onto yet because otherwise you might get on and find that there's already loads of it on there and then you'd have wasted the service centre peoples' time bringing it to the train - you'll never be able to sell it all, you'll have nowhere to put it, so it's just going to have to come off again at the next service centre and all you've really achieved is a very expensive and unnecessary transfer of stock from one centre to another. Additionally a catering crew member might start their diagram at a location where there isn't a service centre (using the example of XC you've mentioned above, there aren't XC service centres at Manchester, Leeds or Bournemouth, but catering crews start and end their diagrams there) so there's no benefit to them ordering stock before they get on the train anyway.

It wouldn't be possible to confuse SC staff with Hosts, the uniforms are very different. For example, XC Service Centre Staff wear brown/burgundy jumpers, where as the Hosts wear a shirt, and blazer and a tie/cravat. Where the trolleys start their day at the SC, it is the Host's responsibility to check the stock on the trolley matches the set par and they can also do something called a Top-Off, where they order/take time of day based extras, such as morning pastries, dependent on how many they think they will need, and they certainly fill their own pump pots, not the service centre staff.

The service centre staff at 'trolley off-board' centres will stock trolleys, order stock, deliver stock and do light cleaning duties, as well as liaise with Hosts and pass on messages from management, i. e. the Manager wants to see you for a Sales Review.

Where the trolleys are on board, which is the case for XC Voyager and HST services, the Hosts count stock on board, as the stock is kept on board, but still have tasks to perform off board, such as cashing in monies, which means they don't finish bang on 8pm and the shifts certainly wouldn't all be patterned to finish then, hence my original point about there being caterers on board after 8pm. It would be impossible to get every XC Host back to the Service Centre by 8 and still have complete coverage until then.

 

[221129]

XC Host back to the Service Centre by 8

The hosts don't go anywhere near the service centre.

The service centre staff at 'trolley off-board' centres will stock trolleys, order stock, deliver stock and do light cleaning duties, as well as liaise with Hosts and pass on messages from management, i. e. the Manager wants to see you for a Sales Review.

No they really don't.

 

[NoOnesFool]

The hosts don't go anywhere near the service centre.


No they really don't.

They do, as on some trains, e. g. XC 170 services and all of the retail catering on EMR, the trolley and stock is loaded and removed from the train everyday. There is no LOB/FOB. They have to collect their trolley from the service centre, they are not allowed to use the TOC mess room.

The First Class Hosts on XC Voyager routes are, unlike 170s, employed directly by cross country and adopt a LOB/FOB approach, which means the stock stays on board between journeys and the Host orders the stock to be delivered from the service centre.

 

[221129]

XC 170 services and all of the retail catering on EMR

None of which have been resumed.

The First Class Hosts on XC Voyager routes are, unlike 170s, employed directly by cross country and adopt a LOB/FOB approach, which means the stock stays on board between journeys and the Host orders the stock to be delivered from the service centre.

Having been involved in the above for the last 5 years, I am well aware as to how it works. However this is not currently the case.

 

[NoOnesFool]

None of which have been resumed.


Having been involved in the above for the last 5 years, I am well aware as to how it works. However this is not currently the case.

So if they aren't doing LOB /FOB, are the trolleys and stock taken off board everday then? I've never known that with First Class before (apart from TPE first class complimentaries).

 

[221129]

So if they aren't doing LOB /FOB, are the trolleys and stock taken off board everday then? I've never known that with First Class before (apart from TPE first class complimentaries).

They are (supposed to be) doing LOB/FOB however they are extremely limited in what they can top off during the day. With most orders being computer generated when the set is allocated.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Changing the thread a bit, what is the ontrain catering provision on what used to be the Southern Region of BR these days?
As far as I'm aware there isn't any on Southern, Thameslink, Gatwick Express, Southeastern or Island Line. South West Railway did have some trollies (and actual buffets?), but they've been cancelled due to Covid and are unlikely to return. The GWR services that venture into the (former) Southern Region territory did have some trollies but they've long gone.
Is that an accurate summary of the situation? Any corrections appreciated.

 

[185143]

Changing the thread a bit, what is the ontrain catering provision on what used to be the Southern Region of BR these days?
As far as I'm aware there isn't any on Southern, Thameslink, Gatwick Express, Southeastern or Island Line. South West Railway did have some trollies (and actual buffets?), but they've been cancelled due to Covid and are unlikely to return. The GWR services that venture into the (former) Southern Region territory did have some trollies but they've long gone.
Is that an accurate summary of the situation? Any corrections appreciated.

There was a trolley on the GWR Portsmouth services I used in October 2019

 

[Jan Mayen]

There was a trolley on the GWR Portsmouth services I used in October 2019

Indeed. I remember getting a Gatwick - Reading train a few years ago which did have a trolley, and remember thinking that in my life time I'd gone from being on the Brighton Belle (once, as small child) through buffet cars and then to just the occasional trolley on the Gatwick - Reading service as catering on the Brighton Line
What prompted my post was discovering an old (May 1970) Southern Region timetable which included The Brighton Belle, many buffet cars and restaurants, including one on the daily Brighton to Exeter service. Now there's nothing anywhere on the Southern! How times have changed...

Edit: I'd forgotten about Cross Country between Reading and Bournemouth. Presumably they have or will have on board catering of some sort.

 

[NoOnesFool]

Does anyone know if Avanti have plans to reinstate the First Class at-seat service on Pendolino services? Their website says that there's The Shop only for refreshments, yet as I recall, The Shop is located towards the other end of the train. Which would be quite a trek on an 11 coach formation!

 

[221129]

Does anyone know if Avanti have plans to reinstate the First Class at-seat service on Pendolino services?

Not as of yet.

 

[dk1]

Catering resumes on many Greater Anglia Intercity services from tomorrow & fully from 17th May.

 

[py_megapixel]

Catering resumes on many Greater Anglia Intercity services from tomorrow & fully from 17th May.

What non-intercity services did they have catering on?

 

[dk1]

What non-intercity services did they have catering on?

None.

 

[py_megapixel]

None.

Sorry, I misread your post before and made an incorrect assumption.

 

[Galvanize]

What non-intercity services did they have catering on?

Catering Trollies existed briefly in the early Greater Anglia Days on the Norwich-Cambridge services, but I don’t remember regularly seeing them. Otherwise it was only really on the Intercity services!

 

[dk1]

Sorry, I misread your post before and made an incorrect assumption.

No problem. Years ago a private company offered refreshments on the Stansted Express but apart from a short lived trolley on the Norwich to Cambridge & CrossLink Basingstoke routes, Anglia has only ever offered it on the GEML from its Norwich base.

Catering Trollies existed briefly in the early Greater Anglia Days on the Norwich-Cambridge services, but I don’t remember regularly seeing them. Otherwise it was only really on the Intercity services!

A trolley was provided on all apart from the last two (19:30 & 21:25 I recall) Norwich-Cambridge services from its inception in 2002. Lasted only a couple of years sadly. There where rumours of resurrecting it on selected trains now they go through to Stansted but then Covid happened.

 

[LowLevel]

EMR are trialling the return of standard catering on both Intercity and local routes shortly and first clsss catering has partly resumed already with a reduce offering on any train with a first class host expected to start on 19th April.

 

[dk1]

The reduced frequency (hourly) Liverpool Street - Norwich has allowed several trains to resume with both cafe bar & trolley service which was only done on the busiest trains (SX) prior to the pandemic. Gone from one extreme to another this week & very good to see it back.

 

[306024]

The reduced frequency (hourly) Liverpool Street - Norwich has allowed several trains to resume with both cafe bar & trolley service which was only done on the busiest trains (SX) prior to the pandemic. Gone from one extreme to another this week & very good to see it back.

Second that! Never has a can of Adnams Southwold bitter tasted so good as on Monday evening. And a valuable rest bite from mask wearing throughout the journey too if you drink it slow enough

 

[dk1]

Second that! Never has a can of Adnams Southwold bitter tasted so good as on Monday evening. And a valuable rest bite from mask wearing throughout the journey too if you drink it slow enough

Nice one. A bit of normality returns mate.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Nice one. A bit of normality returns mate.

From your daily observations , how are the loadings on Greater Anglia "main line" - considering a Felixstowe book buying trip next week and it would be excellent to eat / drink modestly on the train. Thank you.

 

[dk1]

From your daily observations , how are the loadings on Greater Anglia "main line" - considering a Felixstowe book buying trip next week and it would be excellent to eat / drink modestly on the train. Thank you.

Pretty good but with the excellent & enlarged new IC/Regional fleet social distancing is never a problem. Most trains have at least a cafe or trolley but most daytime trains seem to have both. Hope that helps.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Pretty good but with the excellent & enlarged new IC/Regional fleet social distancing is never a problem. Most trains have at least a cafe or trolley but most daytime trains seem to have both. Hope that helps.

Thanks - much appreciated ! - the dogbox replacements on the branch are a major benefit. Aim to boost the local economy !

 

[Butts]

LNER Edinburgh to Berwick upon Tweed Return in 1st Class Today - complimentary catering.

Egg Sandwich and Can of Coke on the way down.

Chicken Salad Sub, Crisps, Biscuits and a Can of Coke on the way back.

Not bad 2 sub-hour journeys.

Interestingly on the way down the Steward was writing the orders on the back of a napkin and on the way back using a smartphone.


Penny pinching alert....the Coke Cans used to be full sized they are now 200ml - almost a mixer size. Crisps used to be 50g, then 40g and have now shrunk to 20g - almost a packet of peanuts dimensions.

I asked if Free Alcohol was coming back at some stage and he didn't have a date.


Travelled to Carlisle and back today on Avanti from Falkirk 1st Class

Outward - Pepsi, Coffee, 2 Uglies, Crisps, Duck Pate & Crackers and a scone.

Inward - Pepsi, Coffee, 2 Uglies, Crisps, Cheese and Biscuits Kit.


I'd call it a score draw on the freebie front between LNER and AVANTI - both served to your table.

 

[bikesntrains77]

Travelled to Carlisle and back today on Avanti from Falkirk 1st Class

Outward - Pepsi, Coffee, 2 Uglies, Crisps, Duck Pate & Crackers and a scone.

Inward - Pepsi, Coffee, 2 Uglies, Crisps, Cheese and Biscuits Kit.


I'd call it a score draw on the freebie front between LNER and AVANTI - both served to your table.

Good to hear that "at seat" has returned on Avanti. I saw the website had been updated but wasn't sure what to expect.

 

[185143]

Avanti now do an at seat ordering service in Standard too. You can go online and order something from the shop and either go and collect it or have it delivered to your seat.

GWR have resumed using the lounge car on the Night Riviera, window seats only, and also started serving alcohol on there again. Made for a good trip!

 

[route101]

Is there still a limited range from the buffet on LNER and Avanti?

 

[Butts]

Is there still a limited range from the buffet on LNER and Avanti?

I didn't visit it as in 1st Class - Table Service on both.

Neither have really got an excuse not to bring back the Free Alcohol from May 17th - will they do it ?