One Britain one nation?

[hst43102]

I laughed much harder than I should have when I first read this. I like the idea but the execution of this idea is absolutely awful.

 

[Anonymous10]

I imagine it'll go down like a lead balloon in Scotland, Wales and parts of Northern Ireland.

wales's first minister has already said it will not take place in Wales as a matter of policy as education is a devolved matter here

 

[DarloRich]

This may be of interest here:

https://twitter.com/danbarker/status/1407416540996194317

I dont know to embed a tweet but it explains the background to this scheme and how it has suddenly come to wide notice.

 

[D6130]

But my main concern is that this week Philip Davies asked a Parliamentary question of Gavin Williamson, and Esther McVey one to the PM which prompted the DfE to 'suggest' that schools participate.

Hmmm.....interesting. It just so happens that Philip Davies MP and Esther McVey MP are husband and wife. This may be totally irrelevant....but, on the other hand maybe not? I think we should be told!

 

[Gloster]

The problem is that a tweet from the DofE gives the impression that the idea is officially supported and encouraged. Which it is, to a certain extent, thanks to the existence of the tweet. And, having gone so far, there will be encouragement from certain elements to keep it going, support it and take it further.

 

[Typhoon]

There is at least one school in Kent that won't be taking part:

But Hayley King, head teacher at Tiger Primary School in West Malling thinks it is not the best use of her pupils' time and says it doesn't reflect the values already taught at the school.
Speaking to KentOnline today, she said: "It's not that we don't feel it's a worthwhile day but the children have missed so much time of learning through the pandemic and there's been such an emphasis on us trying to help them catch up on their maths, their reading and their writing that to take time out to learn a song was perhaps not the best use of the time we have in school.

"As a primary schools we teach British values all the time and our emphasis on our curriculum is about tolerance, respect, being kind and having pride as a nation in what we do and I feel we don't need one day to mark that. It's something we should do all the time."

The school has a Cool to Be Kind project where each week the children have a different project on topics including what it means to be part of a community, kindness and tolerance.

Ms King explained: "It allows us to think about others and as that's something we do all of the time having one day would take away from our other learning. It's not a valuable use of the children's time."

Schools across the country are being asked to sing the song on Friday. But Ms King feels the words could have been looked at more closely.

"I feel the message about being inclusive was missed a little in the song...". She said: "It's lovely it was written by children however I do think it needed editing from someone else. I was a little concerned because we have quite a multi-cultural community here - we cover all corners of the UK and many members from across Europe and other parts of the world - and I kind of felt it wasn't inclusive enough.

"It was too English. I don't want to be too political but our whole emphasis is about being inclusive for all and some parts of the UK may feel it didn't truly represent them

"What does it actually mean? What does it mean at this point? What we try and stand for in our values isn't about being a strong Britain.

"It's about unity, about equality and a celebration of who we are and bringing those cultures and nationalities together from all around the world because as a strong Britain we need people from around the world to fulfill those roles in our country to enable us to function in the way that we do.

"I feel the message about being inclusive was missed a little in the song."

Obviously she's not going to feature in the Honours List any time soon; and I don't expect 'Cool to be Kind' to be mentioned in PMQs, but Ms King sees to have the ideas to develop the kind of school I would want my school-age relatives to attend.

Hmmm.....interesting. It just so happens that Philip Davies MP and Esther McVey MP are husband and wife. This may be totally irrelevant....but, on the other hand maybe not? I think we should be told!

The officers of the One Britain, One Nation Parliamentary Committee that existed in the last parliament featured as officers Andrea Jenkyns and Jack Lopresti, another husband and wife. Coincidence? Actually no mention of OBON on Ms Jenkyns' website, but she does remind us that yesterday was 'Thank a Teacher Day'.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The first documented event on the website is the birth of Prince George (almost 8 years ago) so I suspect it will be around a little while yet.

I am not for one minute doubting the motives of Kash Singh when he founded the organisation, or the many religious and secular representatives who have give their testimonial. The movement seems to have been developed in West Yorkshire, mainly, but not entirely, in Bradford, where it is clearly bringing communities together.

Yeah, that's my impression too.

I start to worry when I read of a 'call to action' and when I see photographs of a reception in the Commons hosted by Andrea Jenkyns and Andrew Rosindell, of which no fewer than 14 include the distinctive features of Jacob Rees-Mogg (in his pre- Leader of the House guise); the only Labour Officer of the One Britain, One Nation committee in the house I can find lost his seat in the last election. But my main concern is that this week Philip Davies asked a Parliamentary question of Gavin Williamson, and Esther McVey one to the PM which prompted the DfE to 'suggest' that schools participate.

My reaction to that is something like, so what? Jacob Rees-Moggis certainly not my favourite politician - he's done and argued for things that I find deeply unpleasant. But since when was 'I won't support this because he supports it' a good rationale for determining public policy etc.? As far as I'm concerned, if there's a good cause and it happens that Rees-Mogg supports it then - well at least that's one good thing that Rees-Mogg is doing.

Actually I'd suggest that the extraordinary reaction to this by some left-wing politicians and by quite a few people here provides the possible clue as to why OBON photos might mainly feature predominantly right-wing politicians. If left-wing politicians choose (for reasons that I cannot fathom) to shun and mock a good cause, then they've basically excluded themselves and the obvious result is going to be mainly right-wing politicians in photos supporting that cause. Perhaps if politicians on the left could learn a bit of civic pride, it would be different?

 

[75A]

Sorry, English not British.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I laughed much harder than I should have when I first read this. I like the idea but the execution of this idea is absolutely awful.

I would agree on it being a great idea and poor execution. I'm guessing maybe the poor execution is because OBON was a local campaign and therefore didn't have the resources a Government would have? If you're primarily dealing with schools in Bradford, that might explain why you didn't think to check whether schools in Scotland were open on the date you've been using. It appears the Government then got bounced by some Common PMQ questions into supporting it, maybe without checking the practicalities first?

 

[py_megapixel]

And to think I believed the actual British national anthem was full of drivel...

If someone wants to be proud of Britain of their own accord, fine. I don't agree with them, but I can understand that it's a valid viewpoint for some people.

OBON, on the other hand, seems to advocate indoctrination. Suggesting that it is a "MUST" for primary school children to sing a song containing lyrics such as:

• We’ve opened our doors - when we've just left the European Union, and therefore prevented many more people from entering the country
• United forever, never apart - when things like Brexit, Scottish independence, and the various Covid restrictions are keeping people apart more than ever
• Strong Britain, Great Nation - when for many people Britain is at its least "strong" and "great" in living memory

reminds me of what I've heard about the American education system, where children are essentially forced to believe from quite a young age that they live in the best country on earth and had damn well better be grateful for the opportunity (even though in almost any international ranking which represents anything to do with quality of life, the US is not #1).

Or alternatively, you could consider it to be something out of a totalitarian dictatorship.
Whichever you view it as, it's unhealthy - it leads to complacency, which if it becomes widespread I fear will result in an unwillingness to tackle issues because of an unfounded belief that their aren't any.

 

[SteveM70]

Patriotism is an abstract concept, and means different things to different people. It’s also a sense that people develop, not something that they can be compelled to feel. This nonsense feels like something out of Big Brother (the book not the telly programme).

It just so happens that Philip Davies MP and Esther McVey MP are husband and wife. This may be totally irrelevant....but, on the other hand maybe not? I think we should be told!

I didn’t know that. But as an old work colleague once said when talking about Peter and Virginia Bottomley, “at least they’re only spoiling one house”

 

[AlterEgo]

And to think I believed the actual British national anthem was full of drivel...

If someone wants to be proud of Britain of their own accord, fine. I don't agree with them, but I can understand that it's a valid viewpoint for some people.

OBON, on the other hand, seems to advocate indoctrination. Suggesting that it is a "MUST" for primary school children to sing a song containing lyrics such as:

• We’ve opened our doors - when we've just left the European Union, and therefore prevented many more people from entering the country
• United forever, never apart - when things like Brexit, Scottish independence, and the various Covid restrictions are keeping people apart more than ever
• Strong Britain, Great Nation - when for many people Britain is at its least "strong" and "great" in living memory

reminds me of what I've heard about the American education system, where children are essentially forced to believe from quite a young age that they live in the best country on earth and had damn well better be grateful for the opportunity (even though in almost any international ranking which represents anything to do with quality of life, the US is not #1).

Or alternatively, you could consider it to be something out of a totalitarian dictatorship.
Whichever you view it as, it's unhealthy - it leads to complacency, which if it becomes widespread I fear will result in an unwillingness to tackle issues because of an unfounded belief that their aren't any.

Did you read any of the preceding posts in the thread?

It’s harmless cringe, although the cringe is so strong it ought to come with a health hazard.

 

[py_megapixel]

It’s harmless cringe

In it's current state - with most people ignoring it - it's harmless. But if this ideology becomes the dominant one, it would be concerning in my opinion.

 

[ainsworth74]

The thing that gets me is when did it become a seemingly requirement (or at least encouraged anyway) to be performative with our patriotism? My conception of patriotism or pride in ones nation in a British sense has always been very low key. Sure we'll run around waving flags and whatnot for sporting events, big royal occasions, Last Night of the Proms or what have you. But it feels like there's been a shift, from at least a certain section of the political sphere though I think more widely as well, that now means that patriotism must be performative. It's not enough to simply be patriotic or to have pride in whatever aspects one takes pride from ones country you must now show your patriotism. And a failure to do so indicates that you have failed in someway. That you don't "believe in Britain" or you are somehow "doing Britain down". It honestly perplexes me.

Suddenly it seems that if you're a politician, certainly if you're a Tory Politician, you must have a Union Flag in the background of all Zoom calls. My MP went to Parliament wearing a Union Flag face covering. We had the explosion at Charlie Stayt poking, what I took as a bit of fun, at the size the flag in the background of interview Robert Jenrick was presenting. More than 6,000 complaints to the BBC, then there was all the tweets and condemnation of the "woke" BBC. Over what was clearly a gentle bit poking fun. Then of course we had the spectacle not long after of the BBC Director General being asked why the Union Flag didn't feature in the BBC's annual report in a Parliamentary Select Committee hearing. Then there's the whole "national flagship" nonsense which is currently boiling away in the background. And of course finally the subject of this thread that dire song which has suddenly been encouraged by the DfE as being something that schools should spend valuable time doing (when they already spend time trying to inculcate British values into their pupils as it's something they're supposed to be doing!). Yet more performative nonsense.

None of this, as far as I can see, actually does anything to really promote things in which we can actually take pride and which might actually foster a sense of togetherness and inspire patriotic feeling. If anything, for me, it does the opposite having all this stuff rubbed in ones face!

What on earth has happened? Why has it become that you must now be seen to be patriotic? At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man (well before, I like to think, I should be considered an old man; though I'll accept the grumpy epithet) it certainly never seemed like something we had to worry about when back in the 00s or, dare I say, pre-Brexit. It just was. British patriotism was a personal thing that didn't need to be shouted about (outside of the previous examples mentioned).

Perhaps I'm just out of touch?

reminds me of what I've heard about the American education system, where children are essentially forced to believe from quite a young age that they live in the best country on earth and had damn well better be grateful for the opportunity (even though in almost any international ranking which represents anything to do with quality of life, the US is not #1).

Hmm I wonder when school children will start being required to pledge allegiance to the flag if we're to continue to go down the road of this performative nonsense...

 

[edwin_m]

Did you read any of the preceding posts in the thread?

It’s harmless cringe, although the cringe is so strong it ought to come with a health hazard.

If you read the preceding posts you will see that some people consider it harmless, and others don't. Your post simply slaps down an opinion you don't agree with, without giving any justification.

My own view is that it probably started out with the best intentions, but by being picked up by the most divisive government in recent history it's been weaponised and no longer fulfils its original purpose.

 

[D6130]

My own view is that it probably started out with the best intentions, but by being picked up by the most divisive government in recent history it's been weaponised and no longer fulfils its original purpose.

Hear! Hear!

 

[Dent]

My own view is that it probably started out with the best intentions, but by being picked up by the most divisive government in recent history it's been weaponised and no longer fulfils its original purpose.

That sounds like quite a good analysis, but I should add that concepts of "pride" and "patriotism" have always been open to being weaponised in this way. It may look superficially that this campaign started has good intentions, but if it did then I think it was rather misguided because it is so open to being weaponised.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Words are meaningless when the country's actions lead to such unhappiness for many. I am no longer proud of being British and would gladly swap my passport with most other European ones. The people in this country who have made life a misery don't even apologise for what they have done. How do you expect me to celebrate this country? Before I consider being patriotic, the country needs to put right what it has done wrong.

too right

 

[AlterEgo]

If you read the preceding posts you will see that some people consider it harmless, and others don't. Your post simply slaps down an opinion you don't agree with, without giving any justification.

Like nearly every other post on here then… you don’t need to justify why something is cringe.

The real problem we have in political discourse is that so many people seem to be enthusiasts of sniffing out liminal fascism. It’s deeply unimaginative. Fascism was a continental response to conditions in the 1920s and 30s, as was communism.

It’s entirely possible for things to be bad or unwelcome without being down slippery slope to Nazi Germany. What if there’s something politically awful down the line…that…isn’t…fascism? That none of us can conceptualise yet? Feels often like we are watching one mountain for the wolves to attack and not checking our back sometimes.

Laughable really that people think the cringe song is *harmful*. It’s also narcissistic to assume that one has spotted some terrible hidden political agenda that lots of other people are going to be - by one’s own judgment - too stupid to recognise.

 

[py_megapixel]

Words are meaningless when the country's actions lead to such unhappiness for many. I am no longer proud of being British and would gladly swap my passport with most other European ones. The people in this country who have made life a misery don't even apologise for what they have done. How do you expect me to celebrate this country? Before I consider being patriotic, the country needs to put right what it has done wrong.

too right

I would agree with almost all of that as well.

Laughable really that people think the cringe song is *harmful*.

I don't think the song on its own is ostensibly harmful. What I do think, though, is that if the next generation of children completely and unquestioningly buys into the ideology behind it, addressing fundamental issues in our society will become considerably harder. It wouldn't be facism, totalitarianism, or anything like that - rather it would be the sort of systemic and unfounded belief of superiority, like we see from the US all the time.

I have no issue with schools teaching children that song, if they really think it's beneficial - but I would hope they are also teaching them about the horrible things the United Kingdom has endorsed and participated in the past, as well as more recently what years of incompetent governance have done to divide and damage the country. Students need the ability to form their own opinion - not to be blindly indoctrinated.

Thankfully, though, most schools seem to be ignoring it

 

[Typhoon]

Suddenly it seems that if you're a politician, certainly if you're a Tory Politician, you must have a Union Flag in the background of all Zoom calls.

My reaction to that is something like, so what? Jacob Rees-Moggis certainly not my favourite politician - he's done and argued for things that I find deeply unpleasant. But since when was 'I won't support this because he supports it' a good rationale for determining public policy etc.? As far as I'm concerned, if there's a good cause and it happens that Rees-Mogg supports it then - well at least that's one good thing that Rees-Mogg is doing.

Actually I'd suggest that the extraordinary reaction to this by some left-wing politicians and by quite a few people here provides the possible clue as to why OBON photos might mainly feature predominantly right-wing politicians. If left-wing politicians choose (for reasons that I cannot fathom) to shun and mock a good cause, then they've basically excluded themselves and the obvious result is going to be mainly right-wing politicians in photos supporting that cause. Perhaps if politicians on the left could learn a bit of civic pride, it would be different?

My problem with the MPs involved is not that they are right-wing (by which I assume you mean Conservative) but they are on the ERG wing of the party; I have checked a dozen of my local Conservative MPs who do not fall into that category, not one mentions OBON (and only one obviously had the Union flag on his website). I did learn that it was National School Sports Week, which does seem like some that might be worth promoting (provided it is encouraging sport - and exercise - for all, not just the elite, while the unfit sit on the sidelines). It really seems like they are trying to bounce moderate Conservatives into supporting something they may not be over happy with. Also ensuring that the handiwork of some primary school pupils in Bradford is being picked over with a fine tooth comb although they probably thought they were composing something for use within their own school - they are rather unfortunate victims here.

What on earth has happened? Why has it become that you must now be seen to be patriotic?

I always thought that the traits of being British included modesty and self-deprecation; and left chest-beating patriotism to others. There is a very good reason why 'Three Lions ...' goes down so well.

A Tory MP is campaigning for everyone to get a photo of the Queen for their houses and no, it is not 1 April.
Joy Morrissey, who represents Beaconsfield, said she would be writing to the Prime Minister for his support for the “wonderful, patriotic and unifying campaign for our country”.

People go into politics for a lot of reasons. Some seek to climb the ladder to power and implement their ideological vision on the country. Others want to represent the constituencies they know and love and make things better for local people.

It’s not unusual to have certain interests and policies that they prioritise above others in politics. But that Morrissey stepped into Parliament when elected in 2019 and thought: “Ah, great. Now I can start fighting for every household in the UK to get a photo of the Queen!” This is a deeply strange and suspicious energy.

And it is not the first time the American-born MP has gone on about how much she loves Britain and the Queen.

Earlier this month, she revealed she has ordered “another” snap of Her Majesty for her office, making everyone wonder how many she had already.

This is another example of forced patriotism. Nothing wrong with having pictures of the Queen, we've got a few somewhere that my mum collected, but they can be bought in every souvenir shop in the country, but the one she is holding dates from the early fifties, why not the smiling old lady with matching hat and coat, or, better still, why not let us decide who we want pictures of? Anyone who thinks that a gift of a picture is going to unify the country really is deluded, I would suggest it may have the opposite effect; my concern is that is the intention.

source: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/othe...a-photo-of-the-queen/ar-AALnREQ?ocid=msedgntp

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The thing that gets me is when did it become a seemingly requirement (or at least encouraged anyway) to be performative with our patriotism? My conception of patriotism or pride in ones nation in a British sense has always been very low key.

Interesting point. You're right that patriotism has often been low key, but I think it's becoming apparent that over the years that has caused two unfortunate effects:

Firstly, because for years the only people really using the Union Jack outside specific contexts like sporting events and events involving royalty have tended to be the far right, we've ended up with this unpleasant association in many people's minds where quite a few people see the UK flag and instantly assume it's got something to do with unpleasant right wing politics. And I guess more people now want to get rid of that association - and the obvious way to do that is for people to reclaim the flag and start using it in the context of either progressive politics or where there's no political context at all and it's just, supporting the community.

Secondly, I think we do have a growing issue of some British people not just merely being agnostic towards the UK, but of actively hating the UK. That manifests itself in various ways ranging from - at the extreme - actual terrorism - to the way that being continually dismissive of the UK or people deliberately highlighting all the bad bits of our history and ignoring all the good bits is even starting to enter mainstream politics. That's potentially a huge problem if we want to maintain a cohesive, tolerant, society. How you solve that is complex, but I guess a fair few people - including the Government - are starting to get concerned enough to want to find some way to encourage pride in the UK. I appreciate there's a fine line here - you want to encourage a sense of shared community, but you don't want to force people into 'flag-waving' that some people won't be comfortable with. But personally I do think OBON is kinda along the right lines (although I'd quibble with a lot of the details and yes the way they've gone about it is a bit cringeworthy)

The other thing is, I think you're seeing more flag waving because people who see themselves as patriotic increasingly also see themselves as being under attack for their patriotism. Especially in the last year since the rise of identity politics, you've seen a lot of people on the left pretty much trying to denounce everything that the UK stands for and making out the UK is some kind of horrible country - in a way that just wasn't being done on a large scale say 5 or 10 years ago. That's obviously going to cause a reaction amongst people who disagree. Personally, I've certainly noticed that, whereas 2 years ago what patriotism I felt was low-key, today I feel much more inclination to wave the Union Jack and openly express pride in the UK. And I strongly suspect that at some gut emotional level, that's got a lot to do with my frustration at those who keep attacking the UK. My guess is that part of the reason for the greater flag waving today is a lot of other people feeling the same way.

Suddenly it seems that if you're a politician, certainly if you're a Tory Politician, you must have a Union Flag in the background of all Zoom calls. My MP went to Parliament wearing a Union Flag face covering.

I wouldn't necessarily put that down to any sense of obligation. Obviously I don't know the details, but I'm sure plenty of people like the idea of showing the Union Flag purely because it feels to them like the something they want to do because they love their country and are happy to show it. Is it not possible that in that case of your MP, it's nothing more sinister than that?

We had the explosion at Charlie Stayt poking, what I took as a bit of fun, at the size the flag in the background of interview Robert Jenrick was presenting. More than 6,000 complaints to the BBC, then there was all the tweets and condemnation of the "woke" BBC. Over what was clearly a gentle bit poking fun.

I think the issue there was that - sure, at one level, it was poking fun - but at another level, a lot of people felt a sense of, the presenters were poking fun in a way that seemed to suggest they somehow looked down on the Union Flag. A sense for example, of, if it had been a big EU flag, would the presenters have been poking fun at it in the same way? The suspicion amongst many people is that the presenters wouldn't have dreamed of poking fun at an EU flag. (Of course we have no way to know whether that suspicion is correct or not - but that kind of sentiment is probably what motivated many of the complaints).

Or - put it another way... what reaction do you think there would have been on the left if they'd interviewed someone who had a big BLM flag in the background and the presenters had gently poked fun at the BLM flag? (My own guess is the presenters would practically be fired on the spot - yet poking fun at the UK flag would still be seen as acceptable?)

 

[AlterEgo]

I would agree with almost all of that as well.


I don't think the song on its own is ostensibly harmful. What I do think, though, is that if the next generation of children completely and unquestioningly buys into the ideology behind it,

Kids are not going to suddenly etch that song onto their hearts. The next generation are no stupider than you or I.

 

[edwin_m]

Like nearly every other post on here then… you don’t need to justify why something is cringe.

The real problem we have in political discourse is that so many people seem to be enthusiasts of sniffing out liminal fascism. It’s deeply unimaginative. Fascism was a continental response to conditions in the 1920s and 30s, as was communism.

It’s entirely possible for things to be bad or unwelcome without being down slippery slope to Nazi Germany. What if there’s something politically awful down the line…that…isn’t…fascism? That none of us can conceptualise yet? Feels often like we are watching one mountain for the wolves to attack and not checking our back sometimes.

Laughable really that people think the cringe song is *harmful*. It’s also narcissistic to assume that one has spotted some terrible hidden political agenda that lots of other people are going to be - by one’s own judgment - too stupid to recognise.

I was querying your lack of justification of "harmless", not of cringe, and of your attempted put-down of a perfectly valid alternative viewpoint by suggesting that poster hadn't read the thread, when the thread contained similar points made by others.

The level of discussion on this topic illustrates the sort of divisions this sort of initiative can provoke, in a country where the spirit of 2012 has largely been replaced by the spirit of 2016.

 

[nr758123]

I don't expect 'Cool to be Kind' to be mentioned in PMQs.

Wasn't that by Nick Lowe?

Kids are not going to suddenly etch that song onto their hearts. The next generation are no stupider than you or I.

The teenage kids that I know would come up with some imaginative and, dare I say, subversive alternative words.

 

[Typhoon]

Wasn't that by Nick Lowe?

I wish it was! That was what came into my mind when I saw the name of the project, unfortunately Basher wrote 'Cruel to be Kind'. I won't speculate about which politicians might take that as their watchword!

 

[AlterEgo]

I was querying your lack of justification of "harmless", not of cringe, and of your attempted put-down of a perfectly valid alternative viewpoint by suggesting that poster hadn't read the thread, when the thread contained similar points made by others.

The level of discussion on this topic illustrates the sort of divisions this sort of initiative can provoke, in a country where the spirit of 2012 has largely been replaced by the spirit of 2016.

I was rather querying why the poster hadn’t read the thread to see the post by @DynamicSpirit where the idea had originally come from. If he’d seen that, and had no issue with the validity of it, then it renders his rather alarmist viewpoint (which he has since walked back a bit) rather daft.

I see nobody has actually taken up any substantive point in the thread, including yourself, who also made a point without justifying it (which is fine, it’s a train forum not Chatham House).

 

[Busaholic]

I hadn't heard of OBON before but looking at its website I can see precisely where it's placed politically. I clicked on 'testimonials' and first to come up is Joanna Lumley, her of the ridiculous proposal to create a 'garden bridge' across the Thames which her friend and ally Boris Johnson, then Mayor of London, committed tens of millions of wasted pounds to in a prelude to what he would do, and continues to do, as P.M. Why do people think because you include a few non-white people, many who have secured patronage from the ruling class, including membership of the House of Lords, that it represents anything other than a feeble attempt to persuade people that 'we're all in it together' when we're patently not? I felt physically sick when I heard the pathetic dirge that it is proposed schoolkids get indoctrinated with. 'NUL POINTS' for G.B., once again.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

My problem with the MPs involved is not that they are right-wing (by which I assume you mean Conservative) but they are on the ERG wing of the party; I have checked a dozen of my local Conservative MPs who do not fall into that category, not one mentions OBON

But why does being on the ERG wing matter? The point is, whatever wing they are on the Conservative party, and however much you might disagree with their politics on other areas, your argument here still seems to boil down to, you don't support this because they support it. And that doesn't seem a sensible rationale to me. If you look at the OBON aims and you can see something important that you can clearly say, I disagree with this because X, then that's a good reason to be opposed to them. But the fact that some right-wing Tory MPs support them isn't - to my mind - a good reason to oppose them.

This is another example of forced patriotism. Nothing wrong with having pictures of the Queen, we've got a few somewhere that my mum collected, but they can be bought in every souvenir shop in the country, but the one she is holding dates from the early fifties, why not the smiling old lady with matching hat and coat, or, better still, why not let us decide who we want pictures of? Anyone who thinks that a gift of a picture is going to unify the country really is deluded, I would suggest it may have the opposite effect; my concern is that is the intention.

source: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/othe...a-photo-of-the-queen/ar-AALnREQ?ocid=msedgntp

Personally I wouldn't support that campaign - it looks far too expensive and completely OTT. Looks a bit daft and gimmicky too to me. But to be pedantic, I don't think it's correct to call it forced patriotism because the idea is only to offer portraits of the Queen to households. Forced patriotism would be if it was to make it obligatory for people to accept them and put them up (and obviously in a democracy that would totally unacceptable and wrong).

 

[Gloster]

I may be making a trivial point, but the MP for Beaconsfield was born and educated, up to at least first degree level, in the mid-west of the US. As mentioned above, this may affect how she sees patriotism. (According to the Mirror she is a clergyman’s daughter, but also had a brief but interesting film career.)

Whether you have a picture of the queen on your wall is your business, but I don’t think it is a good use of tax payers’ money at any time. And there is the, albeit small, risk that those who refuse to accept the pictures will be branded as unpatriotic by some of the more extreme members of society.