Orcats

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Intermodal, 31 Aug 2011.

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  1. Intermodal

    Intermodal Member

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    Any good guide on how this works or is it generally private?
     
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  3. First class

    First class Established Member

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    Private unfourtunately.

    TOCs can't even see what each other gets, although it is probably easy to guess on some flows.
     
  4. martinsh

    martinsh Established Member

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    They make it up as they go along, don't they ?
     
  5. First class

    First class Established Member

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    What does the OP want to know about ORCATS?

    I can help, but won't provide numbers.

    LENNON is also key to ORCATS. Depending on what you want to know, LENNON may be relevant.

     
  6. Intermodal

    Intermodal Member

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    Well, I was just wondering how it is calculated. For example if there is an Off Peak return at £30, and three TOCs can be used each way, would each TOC get £10, or is it done based on who's "turf" it is, or based on service frequency, or what? How do open access operators come into it?
     
  7. First class

    First class Established Member

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    Lets say Liverpool to Chester SDS Any Permitted, £8.50.

    Step 1
    9% of that ticket goes to whatever TOC sold it (at a station)

    Step 2
    Merseyrail, ATW, Virgin, London Midland, TPE, EMT and Northern are all entitled to a part of that ticket due to various permitted routes being available, (via Runcorn, Warrington & Birkenhead).

    Step 3
    Allocation Factors
    -Who runs the most trains
    -Journey times of those trains
    -The route of the trains
    -The frequency of service
    -The capacity of the rolling stock

    My Chester Any Permitted example would meanthe fare split as follows:

    Merseyrail - 60%
    Arriva - 15%
    Commission 9%
    All other TOCs share remainder.

    If it was route BIRKENHEAD
    Merseyrail - 91%
    Commission 9%
    All other TOCs 0%

    The operator who sets the fare is *usually* the one who stands to make the most money from the flow, although this isn't always the case. Sometimes it is better for one operator to set the fare, despite say never operating any services.

    Consider this,

    Merseyrail can increase fares by Inflation only.
    ATW can increase fares by more then inflation.

    Example:
    If Liverpool-Chester Any Permitted was priced by Merseyrail initially, then "given" to ATW, then Merseyrail will still get most of the ORCATS share (as per above criteria). Merseyrail therefore have a "fares rise" that is "out of their control" but increases their revenue nonetheless.
     
  8. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    There is also an example of ORCATS working here.
     
  9. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    There is no way to know what the formula is, so no way to know how much each TOC would get. All we can go on is little snippets of information that have been revealed. But if TOCs don't like what the formula produces, they can appeal.

     
  10. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    Manual ORCATS surveys are periodically undertaken in some cases. I spent a day in revenue management learning a thing or two about it.
     
  11. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Probably a good thing about ORCATS is that it has allowed fringe operators such as GC to get into the market. Also would be good if some of the other Open Access scheme that have been mooted got off the ground, but half the time it seems to be the DfT saying it would extract revenue from other TOCs (then again wasn't privatisation meant to encourage competition? :roll:).
     
  12. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    There is usually a section on ORCATS at the back of the annual stations usage report, because they need to use it to determine one of the usage stats, which is interchanges. Appendix 1 here: http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/stn_usage_report_0910.pdf

     
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