Ordsall Chord

[Chrisyd]

I watched a train going along the Ordsall Curve track behind Salford Central this lunchtime and was surprised to see the train stop at the Saford end of the chord at a red signal. Clearly there was nothing on the bridge.

A train then went along the tracks on the far end of the chord and shortly after that the train was allowed to proceed.

I assume this means this is the signal which controls not only when a train can enter the chord but also allows it onto the tracks in Castlefield

Why is it positioned here and not at the the end next to the Junction so that the train could have been entering the other tracks as soon as the signal cleared?

Or have I missed something obvious?

 

[louis97]

I watched a train going along the Ordsall Curve track behind Salford Central this lunchtime and was surprised to see the train stop at the Saford end of the chord at a red signal. Clearly there was nothing on the bridge.

A train then went along the tracks on the far end of the chord and shortly after that the train was allowed to proceed.

I assume this means this is the signal which controls not only when a train can enter the chord but also allows it onto the tracks in Castlefield

Why is it positioned here and not at the the end next to the Junction so that the train could have been entering the other tracks as soon as the signal cleared?

Or have I missed something obvious?

If it was positioned right at the Deansgate end of the Chord the overlap for that signal would fall onto the Up Bolton line. This would mean that a train would either not be able to enter the Chord or, if a reduced overlap was provided, be approach controlled onto it should a train be going ahead of it at Water Street Junction (Deansgate end of the Chord). As such this signal shares a gantry with the signals protect Irwell Street Junction (Victoria end of the Chord) for trains coming from the Deansgate direction. In order for the full overlap not to foul the Up Bolton line the signal could only move around 125-150 metres closer to Water Street Junction, and there could be, and most likely are, many different reasons why that could not happen.

 

[martinr1]

I am sorry if this has been answered before but could someone list what scheduled trains are using the chord now?

 

[Chester1]

I am sorry if this has been answered before but could someone list what scheduled trains are using the chord now?

The Northern Leeds-Bradford-Manchester service extends to Oxford Road 6 times per day. All of the services are between the peaks. In May the service will run hourly to the airport along with TPE Airport to Newcastle and Middlesbrough. The current 6tpd service is largely just to officially open the chord before the big timetable recast enables 3tph to run in May.

 

[martinr1]

Thank you - most helpful

 

[Bovverboy]

The current 6tpd service is largely just to officially open the chord before the big timetable recast enables 3tph to run in May.

In other words, priority has been given to completing the Chord, in order for it to remain little-used until May, over completing electrification of Manchester-Preston, which could presumably be used by electrics the moment it is ready.

 

[30907]

In other words, priority has been given to completing the Chord, in order for it to remain little-used until May, over completing electrification of Manchester-Preston, which could presumably be used by electrics the moment it is ready.

Unfortunately, the permanent way people aren't much good at overhead wiring
More seriously, getting the wires up round the Chord before it opens to traffic makes sense.

 

[Ianno87]

In other words, priority has been given to completing the Chord, in order for it to remain little-used until May, over completing electrification of Manchester-Preston, which could presumably be used by electrics the moment it is ready.

In other words I'm having a house extension built at the moment. Can't get a plumber until Tuesday, so thought I'd see if the electrician can have a go at the pipes instead...

 

[snowball]

In other words, priority has been given to completing the Chord, in order for it to remain little-used until May, over completing electrification of Manchester-Preston, which could presumably be used by electrics the moment it is ready.

Completing the Chord was probably a contractual requirement with penalties for the contractors for not meeting the deadline. Electrification of existing lines will have been a separate contract or contracts with probably different contractors.

 

[Ploughman]

Unfortunately, the permanent way people aren't much good at overhead wiring

And now the PW have moved onto the next project.
Preston - Blackpool maybe?

 

[Chester1]

In other words I'm having a house extension built at the moment. Can't get a plumber until Tuesday, so thought I'd see if the electrician can have a go at the pipes instead...

Better than the other way around

 

[edwin_m]

Better than the other way around

Not if they are gas pipes.

 

[Elecman]

Anyone can install pipes for gas but the installation has to be inspected, tested and signed off by a Gas Safe registered Plumber before the supply can be switched on

 

[kermit]

Any prospect of freight using the Chord?

 

[edwin_m]

Any prospect of freight using the Chord?

Highly unlikely except perhaps as a diversionary route. The only freight that goes through Piccadilly and Oxford Road is to/from then terminals at Trafford and with the number of passenger trains using that corridor it's unlikely any other freight would be welcomed. There are alternative routes for freights passing through the Manchester area.

 

[snowball]

A loco-hauled excursion has been over it:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=144053902&postcount=3034

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=144062279&postcount=3035

 

[YorkshireBear]

In other words, priority has been given to completing the Chord, in order for it to remain little-used until May, over completing electrification of Manchester-Preston, which could presumably be used by electrics the moment it is ready.

Different contract and people so in a word. No.

 

[Bovverboy]

Different contract and people so in a word. No.

So, I presume you're saying, there was nothing wrong with the timescale for Manchester-Preston electrification, but the contractors were no good.

 

[Altfish]

So, I presume you're saying, there was nothing wrong with the timescale for Manchester-Preston electrification, but the contractors were no good.

I think it was a combination of that plus... the tunnel collapsed due to a water main (?), the ground was not what we thought, poor management on both sides(?), and maybe unachievable expectations.

 

[YorkshireBear]

So, I presume you're saying, there was nothing wrong with the timescale for Manchester-Preston electrification, but the contractors were no good.

You presume wrong.

You suggested that priority had been given to the Ordsall Chord over NWEP Phase 4. I was simply pointing out that was not the case.

As it was completely separate projects and contractors no resources swapped between projects. The Chord was completed a year late and was intended to be complete at same time as electrification if not after. The electrification being late has nothing to do with the chord.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The chord project in fact remodelled the Ordsall Lane and Salford Central areas, and wired the start of the Bolton route towards Salford Crescent.
Apart from technical problems, the Manchester-Euxton electrification work suffered from its prime contractor, and quite possibly NR, giving priority to the GW/Crossrail project.

A first run over the chord today, southbound from Victoria to Oxford Road, was not spectacular.
Two minutes late from Victoria because of a crew change, followed by a 5-minute stop at the north end of the chord to let the late-running Preston-Airport past.
Not critical, but entirely typical of South Junction operation.
For what it's worth, 90% of passengers left at Victoria with a handful joining.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

You presume wrong.

You suggested that priority had been given to the Ordsall Chord over NWEP Phase 4. I was simply pointing out that was not the case.

As it was completely separate projects and contractors no resources swapped between projects. The Chord was completed a year late and was intended to be complete at same time as electrification if not after. The electrification being late has nothing to do with the chord.

Different principal contractors - BAM Skanska JV (with designers Aecom and Mott MacDonald) on the Chord; I'm not sure who is PC on Phase 4 (It has been BAM and Balfour Beatty), could be Carillion, certainly the principal designer is effectively NR themselves, but both jobs have a cast of thousands.

In any case, the Chord was planned to be complete in 2016 wasn't it, same time as P4 at Manchester Airport?

 

[WatcherZero]

Planned initially for 2016 but planning permission applied for in 2013 took two years to secure, when construction was approved in March 2015 the estimated completion date was late 2017, groundworks began in late 2015 and in full construction jan 2016.

 

[Cletus]

Review (on the Anonymous Widower blog (probably too long to copy and paste)
https://anonw.com/2017/12/12/a-double-crossing-of-the-ordsall-chord/

I caught the first morning train from Manchester Victoria station across the Ordsall Chord to Manchester Oxford station...

It was only the second weekday of this Ordsall Chord service, but what surprised me was that quite a few of the early travellers went to the extra two added stations on the service....

...Now that the difficult phase is complete, it will be interesting to see how the swervices build up.

 

[snowball]

Pictures posted on Skyscrapercity by "Master Builder":

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=145320993&postcount=3068

 

[snowball]

Tony H1 (alias Geeves) has posted thus on SSC:

Not sure if anyone much cares, I told the driver and he wasn't bothered (probably thought I was sad), but I believe today the chord saw its first electrically powered train from Oxford Rd to Vic and back again due to a signal failure at Lime St. History is made albeit quietly.

 

[Howardh]

The chord project in fact remodelled the Ordsall Lane and Salford Central areas, and wired the start of the Bolton route towards Salford Crescent.
Apart from technical problems, the Manchester-Euxton electrification work suffered from its prime contractor, and quite possibly NR, giving priority to the GW/Crossrail project.

A first run over the chord today, southbound from Victoria to Oxford Road, was not spectacular.
Two minutes late from Victoria because of a crew change, followed by a 5-minute stop at the north end of the chord to let the late-running Preston-Airport past.
Not critical, but entirely typical of South Junction operation.
For what it's worth, 90% of passengers left at Victoria with a handful joining.

AFAIK the first one terminated at Oxford Road (anyone??), so other than enthusiasts, how many would want to end up at Oxford Road going through Vic, where they could probably change onto the metro and finish closer to their destination?

 

[Chester1]

AFAIK the first one terminated at Oxford Road (anyone??), so other than enthusiasts, how many would want to end up at Oxford Road going through Vic, where they could probably change onto the metro and finish closer to their destination?

If their final destination is in the city centre then Oxford Road would be nearer for many people. Victoria is certainly better for Metrolink connections though. The Oxford Road service is just to have some services using the chord prior to May, when people can go to Piccadilly and the Airport too then the extensions will be better used.

 

[Class 170101]

I see TPE services are still booked to reverse at Salford Crescent though. When are TPE going to learn the chord?

 

[Chester1]

I see TPE services are still booked to reverse at Salford Crescent though. When are TPE going to learn the chord?

I can't imagine it will take long considering its barely over 300m and TPE drivers use the tracks at either end. Presumably the late night service will be diverted shortly before the May timetable change at very short notice.