Original Eurostar vehicles arriving in UK

Colin1501

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I had always understood that early Eurostar vehicles arrived in the UK via the train ferry at Dover, and were then moved by rail to Washwood Heath for fitting out. However, I have recently come across an undated picture (see attached) of a Eurostar vehicle on an Allelys heavy-haul vehicle outside what appears to be the former Lord Warden Hotel in Dover. Does anyone have any idea what was going on here?
 

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nlogax

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This was one of the two pieces of E* stock that were rescued from a French scrap pile and sent to Bombardier for some TLC before being sent down to the One-One museum in Kent.


Follow the most recent member of The One-One Collection, Eurostar 3304 Power Car and a first class carriage, on its journey to its new home in Margate in January 2020.
 

Colin1501

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This was one of the two pieces of E* stock that were rescued from a French scrap pile and sent to Bombardier for some TLC before being sent down to the One-One museum in Kent.

Thanks for your reply, but I don't think this is the answer. I say the picture is undated, but I know it is early 1990s from others taken with it. Note the 'G' registration on the lorry tractor unit - 1989/90. I'm sure this was a new Eurostar vehicle being delivered.
 

nlogax

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Good point, I just looked into it again. The Allelys logo is old too so I guess that definitely dates it...can't find much on it at the moment but I would assume this is January 1993?
 

OldNick

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I say the picture is undated, but I know it is early 1990s from others taken with it. Note the 'G' registration on the lorry tractor unit - 1989/90.
I would second that, while the tractor unit could still be on the road, the Ford Cargo next to it is also from that period and you really don't see those about so much these days.
 

ChilternTurbo

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This was one of the two pieces of E* stock that were rescued from a French scrap pile and sent to Bombardier for some TLC before being sent down to the One-One museum in Kent.
I had no idea that had been done, how fantastic! I thought most of the unrefurbished ones had been scrapped in France or at EMR Kingsbury. The 373 is such a handsome looking train :wub:
 
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Also the home to the following (as of May 2021)

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GWR 9005 Special Saloon
NER 305 Officer Saloon
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Eurostar 3304 + Carraige
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DelW

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I would second that, while the tractor unit could still be on the road, the Ford Cargo next to it is also from that period and you really don't see those about so much these days.
There's also what looks like a mk2 Granada or maybe a mk4 Cortina lurking in the background.
 

paolocoopio

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Was there any reason why these were withdrawn and not used elsewhere? Or were they so uniquely designed for the tunnel route.

I seem to remember catching them a few times on the ECML from Doncaster in around 2002ish.
 

UrieS15

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Was there any reason why these were withdrawn and not used elsewhere? Or were they so uniquely designed for the tunnel route.

I seem to remember catching them a few times on the ECML from Doncaster in around 2002ish.
Was this The White Rose service that used Channel Tunnel units? I saw one at Potters Bar and it's been a long time since I fell in love with a train at first sight but it was breath-taking.
 

paolocoopio

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Was this The White Rose service that used Channel Tunnel units? I saw one at Potters Bar and it's been a long time since I fell in love with a train at first sight but it was breath-taking.

Not quite sure.
Now I think about it, I'm sure at least one rake was painted in the blue GNER livery too.

Just seems such a waste that these trains seemed fairly new to me yet were withdrawn.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Yes 3 NoL sets were used by GNER on leeds-kings cross services, two in service, one maintenance/spare. Branded white rose and crewed by E* and used while mallard refurbishments were carried out on MK4 and to replace the set lost through Hatfield and Great Heck. Given their non-standard nature and 110mph top speed GNER eventually acquired some ex VXC HST vehicles and the NoL sets were withdrawn. One set did get rebranded in GNER colours but was the only one treated.
 

citycat

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Errr, it was us GNER staff that crewed them. Not Eurostar. I worked them as a guard many times to and from Leeds. The frustrating thing for me when working them was that I could never find my train office after doing tickets. Usually had to open several offices before I found my own compartment again.

I still have the European style T key which operated the 373 doors somewhere in my wardrobe.
 

D365

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Just seems such a waste that these trains seemed fairly new to me yet were withdrawn.
They were knackered.

Worth pointing out that 25 years is the average lifespan for a high-speed train; the ICE 1 and 2 from the 90s are currently in the process of being withdrawn.
 

43096

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Worth pointing out that 25 years is the average lifespan for a high-speed train; the ICE 1 and 2 from the 90s are currently in the process of being withdrawn.
They’re not. The ICE1 sets are currently going through works for a further refurbishment - DB see them remaining in service for another decade or so.
 

D365

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They’re not. The ICE1 sets are currently going through works for a further refurbishment - DB see them remaining in service for another decade or so.
My mistake, I thought that was the plan with ICE4.

In any case, that’s the same as with the 373s then. Heavy refurbishment required to keep them in service
 

43096

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My mistake, I thought that was the plan with ICE4.

In any case, that’s the same as with the 373s then. Heavy refurbishment required to keep them in service
Looking at DB’s fleet plan, at least in part it looks like they see ICE1/2 sets as replacements for the existing loco-hauled fleet which makes sense as the trailers are newer than the loco-hauled coaches. The power cars are of similar age/slightly older than the Class 101 locos, but the power cars are more recent technically, as many have received new IGBT power converters. The ICE1 sets are being reduced to 9 trailers during refurbishment which ties in with LHCS replacement.

Essentially it is an old fashioned cascade: ICE4 in to replace ICE1/2, which then knocks out LHCS at the bottom.
 

D365

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My understanding was that ICE4 was for replacement of LHCS and ICE1/2. Completely off-topic, however.

In any case, the replacement of electric rolling stock after 25 years is not at all unheard of. The 373s were reportedly very hard worked.
 

pdeaves

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Can anyone help the original poster in why a 373 vehicle was on the back of a low loader in the early 1990s? Presumably nothing to do with GNER's White Rose service?
 

WesternLancer

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My understanding was that ICE4 was for replacement of LHCS and ICE1/2. Completely off-topic, however.

In any case, the replacement of electric rolling stock after 25 years is not at all unheard of. The 373s were reportedly very hard worked.
I had heard that SNCF were keen to scrap the 373s (rather than sell them on) in order to not create an easy life for an 'open access' type operator on french TGV network that would open up competition with SNCF. Obv I doubt this is the sort of matter widely stated officially but one can imagine it being the case. Obv a decision to order new stock was part of the equation. Apols - all a bit off topic.
 

citycat

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Oh? I understood E* provided the catering crew although they wore GNER uniforms. I take it that wasn't the case then

No. It was all GNER drivers, guards and catering crew on board The White Rose. The Customer Service Managers and catering crew had to do double trips to Leeds while drivers and guards just did one.

Had a nice day out to North Pole depot once, learning how to put the emergency coupler together. Bloody heavy thing !

Edit: Just found my 373 Berne key. The end with the protruding bit operated the doors. E68F304F-4465-43FD-BD64-559D9DC22F89.jpegC92E7A32-214F-4062-9AFB-5668BA69C459.jpegA0D978D1-4488-47F2-959E-8AC118A167AF.jpegEA742E3B-546A-43DE-BA5A-F1BB29600D35.jpeg
 
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43096

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Can anyone help the original poster in why a 373 vehicle was on the back of a low loader in the early 1990s? Presumably nothing to do with GNER's White Rose service?
Nothing to do with GNER.

When the E* 373s were built some vehicles were assembled into sets in Belfort and some at Washwood Heath. The individual vehicles were built by various members of the construction consortium at various sites in France, Belgium and the UK - for example all the power cars were built at Belfort. Vehicles were then moved to Belfort or Washwood Heath to be made up into the sets and tested etc. So there would have been a huge number of movements from various sites to deliver vehicles for forming up into sets - I'm not surprised that some were by road.
 

davewolves

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I had always understood that early Eurostar vehicles arrived in the UK via the train ferry at Dover, and were then moved by rail to Washwood Heath for fitting out. However, I have recently come across an undated picture (see attached) of a Eurostar vehicle on an Allelys heavy-haul vehicle outside what appears to be the former Lord Warden Hotel in Dover. Does anyone have any idea what was going on here?
the sets would probably be moved on low loader to avoid any clearance issues, not sure 100% but there is normally some testing required before allowing travel on the main system
 

Strathclyder

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Three sets in fact:

3301/2
3303/4
3305/6

All shown in the 2003 Combined Volume as being in GNER livery.
A full NoL set in GNER colours was quite the sight (linked image copyright of Flickr's Neil Harvey):


Given they were formed of two half-sets, a mixed-liveried train (one half GNER and the other ex-Eurostar) was always possible, and did indeed happen the odd time (linked vid copyright of YT's Railnet):

 

Tracked

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I had always understood that early Eurostar vehicles arrived in the UK via the train ferry at Dover, and were then moved by rail to Washwood Heath for fitting out. However, I have recently come across an undated picture (see attached) of a Eurostar vehicle on an Allelys heavy-haul vehicle outside what appears to be the former Lord Warden Hotel in Dover. Does anyone have any idea what was going on here?
I can remember seeing several carriages in a siding with a load of freight wagons at Dunkirk in the early 90's at the side of the (then) terminal for Sally Ferries' Ramsgate-Dunkirk services. Not sure of the exact year, can remember passing under the new line at Watten in France and the wires were up ready, but I don't think they were running passenger services to Calais at that point. Might have a photo of them, I'll have a look, certainly the only thing worth taking a photo of at that particular ferry terminal :lol:
 

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