Ormskirk-Colne-Blackpool S circuit - additional unit

[Bletchleyite]

Reading OPSTA's latest missive apparently they are going to add an extra unit (and presumably crew, as otherwise it would achieve nothing) into these diagrams to allow a 65 minute layover between arrival from Colne and departure to Ormskirk.

In this case, why not simply split the service back up and run Blackpool S-Colne and Ormskirk-Preston on a self contained basis? The Ormskirk service could then pass at Rufford as it used to in the 1990s.

There surely doesn't seem much point in the "circuit" other than to save a unit and crew?

 

[30907]

That would mean rewriting the timetable, which takes rather longer than re-doing the diagrams and rosters.
Presumably OPSTA is something to do with Ormskirk and Preston and "they" is Northern? It's not a familiar acronym.

 

[geoffk]

Reading OPSTA's latest missive apparently they are going to add an extra unit (and presumably crew, as otherwise it would achieve nothing) into these diagrams to allow a 65 minute layover between arrival from Colne and departure to Ormskirk.

In this case, why not simply split the service back up and run Blackpool S-Colne and Ormskirk-Preston on a self contained basis? The Ormskirk service could then pass at Rufford as it used to in the 1990s.

There surely doesn't seem much point in the "circuit" other than to save a unit and crew?

Ormskirk, Preston and Southport Travellers' Association. You mean 65 minutes layover at Preston? I wonder where the extra unit is coming from seeing that Northern is short of diesel units now.

 

[Bovverboy]

Reading OPSTA's latest missive apparently they are going to add an extra unit (and presumably crew, as otherwise it would achieve nothing) into these diagrams to allow a 65 minute layover between arrival from Colne and departure to Ormskirk.

I would imagine that different crews operate the Preston to Ormskirk section to the ones who do the Blackpool South and Colne sections. If that is indeed the case, then an extra unit could be inserted into the circuit without requiring an extra crew, although I think the existing crew diagrams would probably need amending. All the same this does seem to be a bizarre story and you wonder if OPSTA has got the wrong end of the stick.

In this case, why not simply split the service back up and run Blackpool S-Colne and Ormskirk-Preston on a self contained basis? The Ormskirk service could then pass at Rufford as it used to in the 1990s.

There surely doesn't seem much point in the "circuit" other than to save a unit and crew?

The point of the 'circuit' was to enable an even hourly service to be operated to Ormskirk, rather than the approximately hour-and-a-quarter or so service which had prevailed immediately hitherto. This made use of a perceived bit of slack in what had been the free-standing Blackpool South to Colne circuit. The current routine does seem unacceptably tight, though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would imagine that different crews operate the Preston to Ormskirk section to the ones who do the Blackpool South and Colne sections. If that is indeed the case, then an extra unit could be inserted into the circuit without requiring an extra crew, although I think the existing crew diagrams would probably need amending. All the same this does seem to be a bizarre story and you wonder if OPSTA has got the wrong end of the stick.

Possibly so. Apologies for not clarifying the abbreviation by the way!

The point of the 'circuit' was to enable an even hourly service to be operated to Ormskirk, rather than the approximately hour-and-a-quarter or so service which had prevailed immediately hitherto. This made use of a perceived bit of slack in what had been the free-standing Blackpool South to Colne circuit. The current routine does seem unacceptably tight, though.

I'm aware of that, which is why I think it a bit bizarre that you'd add another unit in without separating the services back up as once you do the benefit of the complexity is lost, and it just becomes complexity that makes things unreliable for no good reason. I did notice that layover is in a different place on a Saturday than the rest of the week, interestingly - it'd be much easier to split the Saturday service up than the weekday one which operates a through service (despite this still not being shown in the public timetable) from Ormskirk to Blackpool S.

 

[northernchris]

Reading OPSTA's latest missive apparently they are going to add an extra unit (and presumably crew, as otherwise it would achieve nothing) into these diagrams to allow a 65 minute layover between arrival from Colne and departure to Ormskirk.

In this case, why not simply split the service back up and run Blackpool S-Colne and Ormskirk-Preston on a self contained basis? The Ormskirk service could then pass at Rufford as it used to in the 1990s.

There surely doesn't seem much point in the "circuit" other than to save a unit and crew?

There is currently a 1714 Preston - Blackburn service on weekdays. I'm not sure where this unit arrives from, but it appears to sit at Preston most of the day. If this is the case, adding this unit in to the cycle would make sense if the crew diagrams are able to be amended

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is currently a 1714 Preston - Blackburn service on weekdays. I'm not sure where this unit arrives from, but it appears to sit at Preston most of the day. If this is the case, adding this unit in to the cycle would make sense if the crew diagrams are able to be amended

OPSTA's article does mention a Blackburn train so this probably is the one. But why do Northern have a unit sat around doing nowt all day when they have an overcrowding problem? Couldn't it do Manchester and back to lengthen a train or something?

 

[darloscott]

OPSTA's article does mention a Blackburn train so this probably is the one. But why do Northern have a unit sat around doing nowt all day when they have an overcrowding problem? Couldn't it do Manchester and back to lengthen a train or something?

Once you look into the diagrams you find there are units sat all over during the day unused, sometimes several in one place! York is a good example

 

[northernchris]

OPSTA's article does mention a Blackburn train so this probably is the one. But why do Northern have a unit sat around doing nowt all day when they have an overcrowding problem? Couldn't it do Manchester and back to lengthen a train or something?

There will no doubt be plenty of units that only see work at peak times, but the current timetables have a few instances where units which could be put to use during the peaks are instead parked idle. Such as the 1718 Blackburn - Rochdale coming off King Street around 1700, the 150 which comes off Newton Heath for the 1918 Manchester Victoria - Leeds, and the unit which sits in Leeds between 1430 and 1918

 

[Bovverboy]

OPSTA's article does mention a Blackburn train so this probably is the one. But why do Northern have a unit sat around doing nowt all day when they have an overcrowding problem? Couldn't it do Manchester and back to lengthen a train or something?

Short-forming trains saves money. The whole franchising process needs sorting out.

 

[northernchris]

Once you look into the diagrams you find there are units sat all over during the day unused, sometimes several in one place! York is a good example

York seems to have a lot of switching of units throughout the day. The 0712 York - Blackpool is a 3 car 158, yet what should then be it's next trip in the cycle, the 1512 ex York is a 2 car 158. I've still not been able to work out where the 3 car unit ends up!

 

[darloscott]

York seems to have a lot of switching of units throughout the day. The 0712 York - Blackpool is a 3 car 158, yet what should then be it's next trip in the cycle, the 1512 ex York is a 2 car 158. I've still not been able to work out where the 3 car unit ends up!

That 3 car comes off in York at 1459 when it gets in from Leeds replaced by the 2 car off the 0824 ex Leeds that sits in p7 all day. Looks like it then ends up on the 1727 to Leeds

 

[northernchris]

That 3 car comes off in York at 1459 when it gets in from Leeds replaced by the 2 car off the 0824 ex Leeds that sits in p7 all day. Looks like it then ends up on the 1727 to Leeds

Ah, thanks for this!

 

[Kite159]

A silly idea I had, split those services up to have
1tph Colne - Ormskirk, maybe with a 10 minute reversal at Preston both ways to aid time keeping. Using single 150s
1tph Blackpool South - Blackburn services (pairs of 150s), running fast from Preston to Blackburn.

Saves having pairs of units heading to Colne with the rear unit locked out of use due to short platforms.