ORR publishes Station Usage Report for 2010-11

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,637
First two stations I've checked - Knutsford and Northwich have had 19% rises.

I think a spreadsheet formula is wrong for 20% as I've found rises of above 20% that haven't been triggered - Ashley for instance.


I wonder who the ten people "Interchanging" at Altrincham were?
Maybe a replacement bus service and a train. Can't be rail to Metrolink as that should be recorded as a National Rail exit and 10 would be grossly out.
 
Last edited:

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
9,432
First two stations I've checked - Knutsford and Northwich have had 19% rises.

I think a spreadsheet formula is wrong for 20% as I've found rises of above 20% that haven't been triggered - Ashley for instance.

Maybe a replacement bus service and a train. Can't be rail to Metrolink as that should be recorded as a National Rail exit and 10 would be grossly out.
Its when its 20% standard deviation more or less than the average rise, so when its over 29.6% rise or under -13.6%.

NRE is suggesting to get to Manchester Airport you get off at Altrincham, take a tram to Deansgate then get a connection to the airport there. That could account for a apparent break of journey.

Im trying to think why theyve reported the strange rise in Wigan, Warrington and Manchester grouping as the origin for tickets. Possibly as theyve increased manual gating and revenue protection?
 

wintonian

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2010
Messages
4,889
Location
Hampshire
Obviously no-one buys singles from or to Winchester and I see about 45% of our triffic is now season ticket holders with a total increase in station usage just over 200,000 or about a 5% increase.

I thought the SWML seemed to be getting busier still and I expect last years figures to continue that trend.
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,637
Its when its 20% standard deviation more or less than the average rise, so when its over 29.6% rise or under -13.6%.
OK that makes sense.

Im trying to think why theyve reported the strange rise in Wigan, Warrington and Manchester grouping as the origin for tickets. Possibly as theyve increased manual gating and revenue protection?
Have they since the previous year though? The barriers at Oxford Road have been there for a few years now and G4S being a regular present at Piccadilly and Victoria and occasional presence at Deansgate is nothing new.

Has anything be done recently for Warrington Bank Quay? I know Central has had TPE inspections for a number of years but Bank Quay certainly didn't used to a few years ago.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,427
Top ten on "Entries and Exits":

Waterloo
Victoria
Liverpool Street
London Bridge
Charing Cross
Euston
Paddington
King's Cross
Glasgow Central
Birmingham New Street

Quietist 10 on same measure, quietist first:
Tees-Side Airport
Dorking West
Coombe
Denton
Breich
Reddish South
Barry Links
Sampford Courtenay
Elton & Orston
Sugar Loaf
 

Schnellzug

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2011
Messages
2,926
Location
Evercreech Junction
I can't see ATM, could anyone run through the busiest and quietest? Cheers :)
Basically, it seems, if I can get through all the waffle, the top 10 is all in London, except Glas Cen which is #9 and Birmingham NS which is #10. Euston is up 13%, but Birm N.S. is down 2% :( Meanwhile, 2 people interchanged at Dorchester West and 2 at Fishguard Harbour in 2009/10, but none at all in 2010/11. :cry:
Which on the whole makes you wonder what these statistics actually mean.
Most of the rest of it seems to be mostly waffle.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
9,432
OK that makes sense.



Have they since the previous year though? The barriers at Oxford Road have been there for a few years now and G4S being a regular present at Piccadilly and Victoria and occasional presence at Deansgate is nothing new.

Has anything be done recently for Warrington Bank Quay? I know Central has had TPE inspections for a number of years but Bank Quay certainly didn't used to a few years ago.
Theyve only been gating Wigan continuously for the last 3 years or so, before that it was random checks the other possibility that came to mind was TVM's being set for grouping rather than physical location.

Lets see, the thing they have in common is they are all Northern groupings in the North West. Theres a note they previously underestimated West Yorkshire PTE tickets by 50% but as people rarely used PTE tickets in West Yorkshire the adjustment was negligible.
 

charlee

Member
Joined
14 Sep 2011
Messages
160
Location
Plymouth
Plymouth rose to 2,401,082 from 2,278,718. Increase of 5.4%

Good increase :) pleased we are increasing year on year!

And we have a larger Passenger usage then Exeter St Davids :) !
 
Last edited:

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,370
Location
Llanelli
Which on the whole makes you wonder what these statistics actually mean.
Most of the rest of it seems to be mostly waffle.
I fail to see what the excitement is every time these figures come out. The data is not particularly accurate. My use of Gowerton is not recorded, as it is made using my season ticket between Swansea and Llanelli, which only accounts for a set number of entries and exits at those two stations.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
9,432
Basically, it seems, if I can get through all the waffle, the top 10 is all in London, except Glas Cen which is #9 and Birmingham NS which is #10. Euston is up 13%, but Birm N.S. is down 2% :( Meanwhile, 2 people interchanged at Dorchester West and 2 at Fishguard Harbour in 2009/10, but none at all in 2010/11. :cry:
Which on the whole makes you wonder what these statistics actually mean.
Most of the rest of it seems to be mostly waffle.
Man Pics up 7.25%, Leeds up 11%, Edinburghs only up 3.3% and Glasgow 3.2%.
 

Captain Chaos

Member
Joined
31 Jan 2011
Messages
806
Dorking West does my head in. It's not that quiet at all. I regularly work Redhill stoppers that stop there. On the 07:04 to Redhill and the 08:33 back (which I work very regularly) I will probably sell about 100 tickets a week from Dorking West.

It's not THAT quiet there. It's the way the numbers are distributed.
 

michael769

Established Member
Joined
9 Oct 2005
Messages
2,006
I fail to see what the excitement is every time these figures come out. The data is not particularly accurate.
This data can influence calling patterns and even station closures - so in some cases it is inaccurate or not very significant to some people's journeys.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,427
Whilst it can influence, I'd be pretty confident that decisions, such as closures, would involve more careful analysis, actual passenger counting etc. The powers that be know the limitations of the data.
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,370
Location
Llanelli
Whilst it can influence, I'd be pretty confident that decisions, such as closures, would involve more careful analysis, actual passenger counting etc. The powers that be know the limitations of the data.
Indeed. The figures can be an indication of trends, but little more.
 

John55

Member
Joined
24 Jun 2011
Messages
800
Location
South East
Whilst it can influence, I'd be pretty confident that decisions, such as closures, would involve more careful analysis, actual passenger counting etc. The powers that be know the limitations of the data.
I seem to remember it is not so long ago that the good people who commute into Bristol found their trains reduced in length by 30 - 50% overnight on franchise change because some dimwit in the SRA didn't realise how bad the industry data was and as a result lots of people were left behind. A similar cock up occurred on the Norwich- Liverpool route for the same reason.

Now thanks to the people who grind through this data every year it is getting better (the discrepency between these figures and passenger journeys in the National Rail Trends publication is down to 17%) but don't assume "TPTB" know
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,637
Indeed. The figures can be an indication of trends, but little more.
I think trends are the reason a lot of people are interested. If passenger numbers are up 20% it's a good time to push for more services, if passenger numbers are down 20% it'll be more a case of defending the current level of service.
 

wintonian

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2010
Messages
4,889
Location
Hampshire
Basically, it seems, if I can get through all the waffle, the top 10 is all in London, except Glas Cen which is #9 and Birmingham NS which is #10. Euston is up 13%, but Birm N.S. is down 2% :( Meanwhile, 2 people interchanged at Dorchester West and 2 at Fishguard Harbour in 2009/10, but none at all in 2010/11. :cry:
Which on the whole makes you wonder what these statistics actually mean.
Most of the rest of it seems to be mostly waffle.
Possibly correct, I don't think I interchanged at Dorchester West at all 2010/11. ;)
 

Schnellzug

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2011
Messages
2,926
Location
Evercreech Junction
Possibly correct, I don't think I interchanged at Dorchester West at all 2010/11. ;)
It's hard to see what that means exactly; does it mean changing from one train arriving at that station to another train departing from that station? Well, as the only thing you'd be likely to interchange between there would be to get off one train from Bristol and get straight back on another one going back, then it's hardly surprising. On the other hand, what it is used for is to interchange from trains from Bristol to trains towards Bournemouth from Dorchester South; but I suppose that wouldn't be recorded in the Statistics, which goes to show how many flaws there are in it, doesn't it.
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,370
Location
Llanelli
I think trends are the reason a lot of people are interested. If passenger numbers are up 20% it's a good time to push for more services, if passenger numbers are down 20% it'll be more a case of defending the current level of service.
Possibly, but if a station does have a rise of 20% over the preceding year, it is more likely to be down to a change in the way the data is collected, or an increase in services that has already happened (Falmouth Line?) or even the fact that a station has become a good splitting point that could account for such a rise.

Not that it does any harm to push for extra services, I'm all in favour of that, and if it helps the case in any way, then that's fine too!
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
24,969
Location
Yorks
Doleham. Southerns least used station saw increases of 630% ample justification for rail investment on the Marshlink line!
That does seem like a bizarre anomaly. Particularly since it now has a greater "usage" than Winchelsea and Three Oaks, both of which are better served and nearer to human habitation !
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top