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There is a valuable lesson here which all rail companies and our Government should learn from and advertise! People throughout the country drive to their gym and then walk on a treadmill - why not think of your walk to your local station as your exercise, and save on your gym fees at the same time? In addition people doing this would be environmentally friendly by taking the train instead of driving, AND avoiding that extra car journey to the gym! All of this is obvious to me because I think about it, but most people don't. However, if they saw such benefits regularly advertised, at least people might then change their habits and appreciate the values of walking more.
Opening Baschurch Station seems like a good idea on paper as it's on an operating line, unlike the Oswestry branch line. And there's no doubt there has bee.n a big expan, sion of residential properties built there. A reopened station may (may) take pressure of the notorious Shototon Crossroads on the A5, where there's a blind corner and reduction of speed limit to 40 mph - and it's still an accident black spot.
Shotatton crossroads really is a nightmare, especially if trying to make a right turn out from the Baschurch direction, due to the A5 being so busy here and with no requirement for this traffic to give way at any roundabout or traffic lights. I can't see that a new station at Baschurch would make any significant difference to the traffic volumes at this junction, but what it would do is to offer an alternative form of travel for at least some journeys. This then comes full circle to having a station at the RJAH hospital between Gobowen and Oswestry so that people from Baschurch could get to this hospital by public transport! But in the absence of re-opening that railway, I do think that if Baschurch station was re-opened, this would add weight to the provision of a regular shuttle bus between Oswestry and Gobowen, via this hospital.
But I think there are parallels with the Oswestry branch line, not least potential effects on existing public transport (bus services on the same route going through other villages, such as Rhuyton XI Towns), and level crossings. A rail service stopping at Baschurch would bring the barriers down on the level crossing for longer and could cause traffic to build up for longer.
There is no doubt that a new station would cause longer barrier closures, however I don't see that as a huge issue here. Wem (on the Crewe line) has the barriers closed more often, since that line is busier, and then they're closed for absolutely ages when a northbound stopping train calls due to the proximity of the station with the barriers. Closing the barriers at Baschurch for longer would be less of a nuisance than it is at Wem, and it might even help to draw attention to the fact that stopping trains were available there.
There is a valuable lesson here which all rail companies and our Government should learn from and advertise! People throughout the country drive to their gym and then walk on a treadmill - why not think of your walk to your local station as your exercise, and save on your gym fees at the same time? In addition people doing this would be environmentally friendly by taking the train instead of driving, AND avoiding that extra car journey to the gym! All of this is obvious to me because I think about it, but most people don't. However, if they saw such benefits regularly advertised, at least people might then change their habits and appreciate the values of walking more.
What a negative attitude, which is exactly why you (and doubtless a good many others) need a reality check through advertising! When getting into your car, do you worry potholes? Or floods? Or worse, do you worry about becoming one of the 1650 people who will die in a road accident in the next year, or one of the tens of thousands who will end up in hospital through someone else's bad driving (or heaven forbid, even your own)? Why focus on the occasional small inconveniences about walking when driving is actually a lot more dangerous? Do try to cheer up and get some perspective!
What a negative attitude, which is exactly why you (and doubtless a good many others) need a reality check through advertising! When getting into your car, do you worry potholes? Or floods? Or worse, do you worry about becoming one of the 1650 people who will die in a road accident in the next year, or one of the tens of thousands who will end up in hospital through someone else's bad driving (or heaven forbid, even your own)? Why focus on the occasional small inconveniences about walking when driving is actually a lot more dangerous? Do try to cheer up and get some perspective!
Three miles in the pouring rain is a pain for sure. But a great many people have the opportunity to walk just 5-10 minutes, in the dry for perhaps 95% of the time, whilst getting their exercise, in order to get to their nearest station. However many of these very people choose to drive instead. Three miles in the pouring rain really isn't the only option to take a walk for most people
@ Shrop: Lol! I drive the 2 - 3 miles to my gym and the first thing I do is jog on the treadmill for 25 minutes -but this is just a warm up to working on weight machines, and in the summer I do cycle to the gym and cut out the warm up.
That being said, I drive, I walk and I sometimes take the train. The car is the most convenient. The noise of my grinding teeth comes from my frustration that the council originally bought the Oswestry branch railway line, in part, to augment cycle route 31. As I cyclist I would love to use the line to travel into town, but this aspect of the scheme appears to have been ignored.
There is a valuable lesson here which all rail companies and our Government should learn from and advertise! People throughout the country drive to their gym and then walk on a treadmill - why not think of your walk to your local station as your exercise, and save on your gym fees at the same time? In addition people doing this would be environmentally friendly by taking the train instead of driving, AND avoiding that extra car journey to the gym! All of this is obvious to me because I think about it, but most people don't. However, if they saw such benefits regularly advertised, at least people might then change their habits and appreciate the values of walking more.
Shotatton crossroads really is a nightmare, especially if trying to make a right turn out from the Baschurch direction, due to the A5 being so busy here and with no requirement for this traffic to give way at any roundabout or traffic lights. I can't see that a new station at Baschurch would make any significant difference to the traffic volumes at this junction, but what it would do is to offer an alternative form of travel for at least some journeys. This then comes full circle to having a station at the RJAH hospital between Gobowen and Oswestry so that people from Baschurch could get to this hospital by public transport! But in the absence of re-opening that railway, I do think that if Baschurch station was re-opened, this would add weight to the provision of a regular shuttle bus between Oswestry and Gobowen, via this hospital.
And how many people want/need to do that journey?
Why do members seem so stuck on the idea that there might be train loads of people attending this hospital? I know from experience that just isn't the case.
What a negative attitude, which is exactly why you (and doubtless a good many others) need a reality check through advertising! When getting into your car, do you worry potholes? Or floods? Or worse, do you worry about becoming one of the 1650 people who will die in a road accident in the next year, or one of the tens of thousands who will end up in hospital through someone else's bad driving (or heaven forbid, even your own)? Why focus on the occasional small inconveniences about walking when driving is actually a lot more dangerous? Do try to cheer up and get some perspective!
Is it a negative attitude or a truthful one?
No I don't worrry about pot holes, or floods, or anything else for that matter. If conditions are that bad I have a simple response; I don't go out!
Three miles in the pouring rain is a pain for sure. But a great many people have the opportunity to walk just 5-10 minutes, in the dry for perhaps 95% of the time, whilst getting their exercise, in order to get to their nearest station. However many of these very people choose to drive instead. Three miles in the pouring rain really isn't the only option to take a walk for most people
I suspect that there are an awful lot more people who live more than a 5 or 10 minute walk from their nearest station or from their nearest gym, so will drive instead.
Ha ha - since when is using your car cheaper than walking or cycling? I used to cycle 3 miles to work for some years, and it was ALWAYS quicker than the same journey took on the occasions when I drove because I needed the car at work. Oh, and it only rained about one in 20 times, and even then it was only drizzle, heavy rain was more like one in 100 times, in which case I'd wait until it eased off.
Is it a negative attitude or a truthful one?
No I don't worrry about pot holes, or floods, or anything else for that matter. If conditions are that bad I have a simple response; I don't go out!
Funny how so many entrenched thinking car drivers cite every worst case scenario they can think of about walking or cycling, even though most bad situations are rare, and yet they just accept all the hazards - and costs - of driving without a care in the world
I suspect that there are an awful lot more people who live more than a 5 or 10 minute walk from their nearest station or from their nearest gym, so will drive instead.
Yes, for some years I used to live 4 miles from our gym, and I almost always cycled. This meant I was already warmed up when I arrived so I could get straight into the activities I wanted. On the rare occasions that it was raining on my return home, I was going straight into the shower anyway, so it really didn't matter much. It's all a case of how we think, but I'm happy that my lifestyle choices of how I travel have almost always cost me a lot less than those who drive everywhere, as well as making me a lot more healthy than many others too.
Since I had my first car! I live in London where the roads are notoriously congested and it is still quicker to travel more than a mile by car than it is by walking. As for cost, I don't care about that if it's more convenient to go by car. Try lugging several plastic bags of shopping home from the supermarket on foot for a couple of miles and very soon you'll understand why some people use their cars.
Since I had my first car! I live in London where the roads are notoriously congested and it is still quicker to travel more than a mile by car than it is by walking. As for cost, I don't care about that if it's more convenient to go by car. Try lugging several plastic bags of shopping home from the supermarket on foot for a couple of miles and very soon you'll understand why some people use their cars.
I understand the value of cars, and I enjoy driving. But I also understand and appreciate the value of walking, I don't care about the few minutes extra it sometimes takes, when I've enjoyed the health benefits it brings. You may be surprised to learn that I sometimes go places without taking several bags of shopping! Oh, and congrats on having enough money that you don't need to care about the costs of driving. And of course it would never occur to you that when you drive, you are actually part of the congestion (and pollution) that everyone else experiences. That is of course, not your problem.
I understand the value of cars, and I enjoy driving. But I also understand and appreciate the value of walking, I don't care about the few minutes extra it sometimes takes, when I've enjoyed the health benefits it brings. You may be surprised to learn that I sometimes go places without taking several bags of shopping! Oh, and congrats on having enough money that you don't need to care about the costs of driving. And of course it would never occur to you that when you drive, you are actually part of the congestion (and pollution) that everyone else experiences. That is of course, not your problem.
Thank you for your congratulation. How do you cope when you do have shopping bags? Do you walk? Do you cycle? Because I'm well aware of both the cause and consequences of congestion, when I drive I make a point of not choosing a route or destination where I'm likely to be caught up in traffic. As I'm retired and have plenty of spare time, I regularly walk around the various neighbourhoods of London which I reach by public transport. Please do not imagine that those who drive unapologetically never walk anywhere.
Thank you for your congratulation. How do you cope when you do have shopping bags? Do you walk? Do you cycle? Because I'm well aware of both the cause and consequences of congestion, when I drive I make a point of not choosing a route or destination where I'm likely to be caught up in traffic. As I'm retired and have plenty of spare time, I regularly walk around the various neighbourhoods of London which I reach by public transport. Please do not imagine that those who drive unapologetically never walk anywhere.
As above, I do drive and I enjoy driving too. If I need to carry heavy items or take passengers, that's when I take the car, but there are many, many times when I go places that are only a mile or less when I have don't have much to carry, and that's when I walk. But there are many, many people who simply will not walk if they can find a way to avoid it. I'm glad to hear that you do walk sometimes. This could be worth a separate thread because I have plenty more to say, which is certainly not all anti-car, it's with the genuine intention of people becoming healthier, costing them less, freeing up our roads for more "essential" traffic (with more discussion on what that might be!), reducing pollution etc.
We went past this on our way to Hagan-y-Mor for out holiday not so long ago. Looks like a nice little set up. We saw the Llynclys bit. We'd have stopped if we'd had more time. We did see the Knockin Shop just up the road though, which made us giggle.
...and moving the conversation back on topic, elsewhere in this thread someone mentioned maintenance of level crossings (in this instance on the Oswestry branch line at Coney Green, over the A5, A483, A495 and at School Lane). A Freedom of Information Request was made through the website whatdotheyknow.com to the Department for Transport. Having had no response a prompt was made which reads:
"The Department acknowledged receipt of this information request on 31st July but it has yet to respond. The Department may feel that it has already answered this question some years ago (that Cambrian Heritage Railways has no responsibility as it has no employees and that the landowner, Shropshire Council has responsibility). However, the Department granted the TWAO to the "railway operator" - not the council.
As of 2024 the council have made no efforts to maintain any of the structures where the railway passes over or under the public highways on the Oswestry branch line, not even for walkers over the pedestrian level crossing at Coney Green, where mobility scooter and pushchair users regularly complain about uneven surfaces. If a rail becomes lose at the level crossing over the A5 and causes a major road accident my understanding is that Shropshire Council would be entirely liable. Is that correct?"
Here's the link to the full correspondence: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/requ...for?nocache=incoming-2789828#incoming-2789828
And the answer from the Department for Transport reads:
"Thank you for your email of 30 July 2024 submitted via the Freedom of Information inbox regarding the Cambrian Railways Order 2017. We have treated your request as an enquiry as it relates specifically to details in the Cambian Railways Order 2017 rather than information held in relation to this Order. The Order was made under the Transport and Works Act (“TWA”) 1992. A copy of the Order as made can be found here, and the decision letter can be found here. We would suggest that you consult with the Office of Rail Regulation and National Highways as article 4(1) requires their written consent before the Railway can be operated where it is crossed by the A5 Trunk Road. You are also advised to seek your own legal advice on what is covered by the Order and any concerns about non-compliance."
At the moment Cambrian Heritage Railways only runs railways services over the Coney Green Pedestrian Crossing, but that crossing is in a very poor state for people with pushchairs and mobility scooter users, and legally it's Shropshire Council's responsibility as landowner to repair it. The Department for Transport who actually granted the TWAO to the "railway operator" appears, from the response above, to be unable to answer the question of maintenance of the level crossings which the council owns, not the railway operator and not used by the railway operator (namely, over the A5, A483, A459 and over School Lane).
Why do members seem so stuck on the idea that there might be train loads of people attending this hospital? I know from experience that just isn't the case.
There does seem some misunderstanding about the role of the Robert Jones and Agnes Hunt Orthopaedic Hospital (RJAH) in Gobowen, near Oswestry. It is not a general hospital but rather a specialist orthopaedic hospital that provides selected specialist services, in particular elective orthopaedic surgery, and also some neurology and rheumatology, with supportive diagnostic services. Patients are highly likely to have mobility problems so will be unable to use public transport easily. RJAH has a wide catchment area, including Cheshire. Patients and their relatives/visitors are more likely to use private motor car transport to visit it than for a typical local general hospital.
It is true that RJAH, which moved to its present site in 1921, was served by Park Hall Halt on the 2½-mile Gobowen to Oswestry branch of the Great Western Railway from July 1926, until it closed under the Beeching cuts in November 1966. However, existing bus services passing RJAH should be more than adequate for its public transport requirements now.
Regarding the lack of an answer to the question put to the Department for Transport at post 254:
It's time to VOTE on rephrasing the question to try and get a straight answer out of the Department. Vote A, B or C:
A. According to the Office of Rail & Road, Cambrian Heritage Railways doesn't employ anyone, so has no responsibility for maintenance of the Coney Green Pedestrian Level Crossing or the level crossings over the A5, A483, A495 and School Lane, and any of the other structures on the Oswestry Branch Railway Line. The TWAO that you granted CHR states that the A5 and A483 cannot be crossed on the level. If an accident were to occur on the A5, A483, A495 and School Lane by general traffic because of poor maintenance of a level crossing, who would be liable?
B. Given that Shropshire Council, owner of the Oswestry Branch Railway Line is responsible for the construction of a "strictly speaking illegal" (SOBC) level crossing on Thomas Savin Road and has failed in it's responsibility to maintain the crossing for pushchair and mobility scooter users at the Coney Green Pedestrian Crossing, can you demonstrate any faith you have in the authority maintaining the crossings over the A5, A483, A495 and School Lane?
C. Is Shropshire Council responsible for the the maintenance of the level crossings at Coney Green and over the A5, A483, A495 and School Lane on the Oswestry Branch Railway Line?
Fingers on buzzers, folks, and cast your votes...NOW!
Why?
As far as I can see this has little to nothing to do with a doubtful attempt to reopen the line that many of us see as a complete waste of time and money.
Personal opinions.
A is asking for a legal opinion on various legal documents rather than a piece of information - so I reckon they will again suggest you get a lawyer.
B and C look to me like they should be directed at Shropshire Council
Regarding the lack of an answer to the question put to the Department for Transport at post 254:
It's time to VOTE on rephrasing the question to try and get a straight answer out of the Department. Vote A, B or C:
A. According to the Office of Rail & Road, Cambrian Heritage Railways doesn't employ anyone, so has no responsibility for maintenance of the Coney Green Pedestrian Level Crossing or the level crossings over the A5, A483, A495 and School Lane, and any of the other structures on the Oswestry Branch Railway Line. The TWAO that you granted CHR states that the A5 and A483 cannot be crossed on the level. If an accident were to occur on the A5, A483, A495 and School Lane by general traffic because of poor maintenance of a level crossing, who would be liable?
B. Given that Shropshire Council, owner of the Oswestry Branch Railway Line is responsible for the construction of a "strictly speaking illegal" (SOBC) level crossing on Thomas Savin Road and has failed in it's responsibility to maintain the crossing for pushchair and mobility scooter users at the Coney Green Pedestrian Crossing, can you demonstrate any faith you have in the authority maintaining the crossings over the A5, A483, A495 and School Lane?
C. Is Shropshire Council responsible for the the maintenance of the level crossings at Coney Green and over the A5, A483, A495 and School Lane on the Oswestry Branch Railway Line?
Fingers on buzzers, folks, and cast your votes...NOW!
The Freedom of Information Act relates to right to access information already held, not to seek creation of new information or receive advice. A and B are not asking for information, but opinions or interpretation which is not what the act is designed for - hence the enquiry language in their response.
C if phrased as "do you have records for who is responsible for maintaining the level crossings at ..." is within the scope of FOI legislation. They may respond that they don't hold such records or give an answer that is inconsistent with what a request to the body they say is responsible would. They would still be complying with their duties under FOI legislation with such a response. Asking C of the council seems the more sensible approach.
If you are concerned with the state of the level crossings, then contacting a local politician either MP or councillor about them would be more likely to lead to action.
Rail & Civils Ltd have been working on the former Coal Yard Works in Gobowen Station today, using a mechanical lifter on tracks going up and down the Oswestry branch railway line. They seem to be working on the installation of metal tubular steps that appear to be of platform depth.
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Regarding posts 256 & 258 about the maintenance of the level crossings on the Oswestry branch railway line: Earlier today I asked Shropshire Council to provide me with details of the latest 4 safety and maintenance inspections of the level crossings along the Oswestry branch railway line, namely over the A5, A483, A495, at School Lane in Blodwel, at Thomas Savin Road in Oswestry and the Coney Green Pedestrian Crossing in Oswestry.
Quick as a flash Shropshire Highways responded: "We do not own nor carry out inspections on the level crossings, the ownership would be Network Rail".
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Here's a link to a YouTube video clip of Darren&Daniel's trip walking up the disused Oswestry railway branch line up to the A5 level crossing and then down toward Oswestry ending at the Whittington Road Bridge filmed last year:
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And this is some old footage of the level crossing on the A5 actually being operated for the passage of a freight train posted on YouTube by stephensrailways:
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And this, from YouTube posted by SteveDD1 10 years ago of going across the A5 level crossing. Note the condition of the crossing and traffic use at that time.
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And finally, a clip from YouTube uploaded by Dutch Railway Explorer of crossing the Oswestry branch line at the level crossing on the A483. The rider appears to be traveling south as he seems to have past the traffic light controlled junction for Maesbury. This is the section where there are plans to cross the road with a bridge.
If we go back to the 2nd YouTube clip here of the freight train crossing the A5, that was the section where the plan is to cross the road using a tunnel to avoid the high voltage power lines viewers can clearly see in the footage.
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One more clip from YouTube, this one uploaded by Pastfinder a year ago, it goes into some detail about the Park Hall Halt in Gobowen and gives a little background into the restoration project:
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And yet another clip from YouTube. This one is 8 years old, so a little out of date. Uploaded by Shropshire Railways:
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I keep finding these clips on YouTube that are far more informative and illustrative of the restoration project than anything I can type. Here's a couple more, both almost 10 years old and uploaded by Shropshire Railways:
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I've found another video clip on YouTube uploaded by Shropshire Railways in 2017. This one shows a trip on the restored line from Oswestry Station to just before the Gasworks Bridge. Today, in 2024 the service has been extended to Weston Wharf.
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This one, again by Shropshire Railways on YouTube, shows the state of the line and the level crossing at Blodwell over the A494. Remember that there are long term plans to restore this stretch of line to allow freight from Blodwell Quarry to be transported up the branch line to Gobowen.
This is a recent driver's eye view of CHR current service from Oswestry to Weston Wharf and back as uploaded to YouTube by Timsvideochannel1:
It shows a driver's view of the journey along a restored section of the Oswestry branch railway line in real time during the summer but in the pouring rain. It starts at the Oswestry Station platform, goes across the Coney Green pedestrian level crossing, closed to walkers by to orange coated volunteers, along the line with a Greenway path and Ambleside Estate on the left and Sainsburys wall on the right, under the Middleton Road Bridge and along a stretch bordered with trees with Plas Ffynnon Estate on the left and various large stores on the right (B&M, Halfords, etc). We come to the heavily propped Gasworks Bridge. Passing under we come to an access route over the line, businesses on the left and a large municipal graveyard on the right. Finally we reach open countryside with fields on the right and an industrial estate on the left. We see a disused rusting metal pedestrian footbridge mounted on some trucks on the left before reaching the Weston Wharf, a large red brick shed actually owned by the charity on the right. The journey then retraces the route.
I live close to Gobowen Railway Station and didn't notice them arriving or departing, but I did see them stored at the Coalyard for some time. Guys would come at least on a weekly basis to switch the engines on and shunt them up and down the yard.
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Regular readers to this thread will have noticed that I'm trying to track down the organisation or authority that has responsibility for the safety and maintenance of the level crossings along the Oswestry Branch Railway Line. Some years ago I approached the ORR and was told that, as Cambrian Heritage Railways was the railway operator on the line they had responsibility, but as they had no actual employees they couldn't be held responsible under any Health & Safety Standards at work.
I then approached Shropshire Council, the authority that purchased the line and was told that they don't have responsibility as they don't own the level crossings.
Most recently I approached Network Rail who, I understood, took very seriously safety and maintenance issues at all of the level crossings on their lines. The question I asked was: "Please can you provide me with details of the latest 4 safety and maintenance inspections of the level crossings along the Oswestry branch railway line, namely over the A5, A483, A495, at School Lane in Blodwel, at Thomas Savin Road in Oswestry and the Coney Green Pedestrian Crossing in Oswestry."
And their answer is "The requested level crossings along the Oswestry branch line are not maintained by Network Rail. This line is owned and operated by the heritage railway..."
I can only conclude that no one is maintaining any of the level crossings along the Oswestry Branch Line.
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And on the subject of responsibility, the recent flooding on Gobowen Road in Oswestry has highlighted a long standing rift between the Environment Agency, Shropshire Council and the Cambrian Railway Trust (Cambrian Heritage Railways by another name) as to who is responsible for the maintenance of culverts on a section of road close to Jasmine Gardens which regularly floods. Each organisation points to the other. My understanding is that Shropshire Council Highways have done some clearance work and the authority is in talks with CRT to persuade them to do regular inspections and maintenance of the culverts under the railway line.
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I'm including a link here to a year old BBC report by Sophie Madden that details the flooding problem near Jasmine Gardens in Oswestry in 2023 and says there have been 3 years of flooding issues up to that point and giving details of Shropshire Council's action to clear roots as a "gesture of goodwill" at that time.
Obviously this clearance work wasn't enough to prevent further flooding. It will be interesting to learn if the Cambrian Railway Trust have done anything to ease the problem.
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Tactile paving slabs have been placed along the entire Oswestry Branch Line platform length at Gobowen Station. I'm not sure when these slabs were installed, or who installed them.
The following is another clip on YouTube from Darren&Daniel Trains called "Another disused railway stroll by Weston Wharf Oswestry" uploaded 10 months ago. It describes the state of the line from the level crossing over the A483 near Weston Wharf going south toward Llynclys.
NIce video, but could you please explain how that is relevant to re-opening a line on the other side of Oswestry and going in the completely opposite direction?
NIce video, but could you please explain how that is relevant to re-opening a line on the other side of Oswestry and going in the completely opposite direction?
The long term plan by Cambrian Heritage Railways is to open the entire line from Gobowen to Blodwel Quarry. The TWAO was granted to the railway operator using this proposal. The idea is to use a light railway to operate a shuttle service between Gobowen Station and Oswestry by building a tunnel underneath the A5.
Next is the "heritage service" expanded from its existing run from Oswestry to Weston Wharf, down to Llynclys and Blodwel via a bridge built over the A483. The reason for the tunnel and bridge is because the ORR objected to the use of a railway service at these two points on the level (as submitted by CHR in their original TWAO application), so the TWAO had to be adjusted to reflect this. If you watch all the videos you'll also learn that Llynclys Station is in private hands, so at some point there would have to be a compulsory purchase (and a relaying of track).
Finally, the very long term plan is to take frieght from Blodwel Quarry along the entire length of the line to connect up to the main line at Gobowen Station. Converging lines in Gobowen would allow trains to run directly from the branch line onto the main line.
At the time of writing it's not clear if plans for phase 1 (a shuttle service from Gobowen to Oswestry) as detailed in the SOBC submitted to the Department for Transport, has officially been scrapped. That said, CHR does have a further 40 years of lease on the entire line, and it is only the cancellation of the second stage HS2 that brought the plans for restoring the Oswestry Branch Line forward.
I suspect in the long term CHR are waiting to get their foot in the door when plans to dual the A5 come to the fore.
Yes, Llanigraham:
The long term plan by Cambrian Heritage Railways is to open the entire line from Gobowen to Blodwel Quarry. The TWAO was granted to the railway operator using this proposal. The idea is to use a light railway to operate a shuttle service between Gobowen Station and Oswestry by building a tunnel underneath the A5.
Next is the "heritage service" expanded from its existing run from Oswestry to Weston Wharf, down to Llynclys and Blodwel via a bridge built over the A483. The reason for the tunnel and bridge is because the ORR objected to the use of a railway service at these two points on the level (as submitted by CHR in their original TWAO application), so the TWAO had to be adjusted to reflect this. If you watch all the videos you'll also learn that Llynclys Station is in private hands, so at some point there would have to be a compulsory purchase (and a relaying of track).
You've already got problems, as has been pointed out numerous times by me and others, trying to get the level crossing approved at the northern end, and now you are proposing to reopen a second level crossing at the southern end; do you really not see the problem here?
Finally, the very long term plan is to take frieght from Blodwel Quarry along the entire length of the line to connect up to the main line at Gobowen Station. Converging lines in Gobowen would allow trains to run directly from the branch line onto the main line.
Err? And how much "product" is being quarried from Blodwel Quarry? Do you honestly think they will/are producing enough to fulfill rail transport? Has a business study actually been done for that?
At the time of writing it's not clear if plans for phase 1 (a shuttle service from Gobowen to Oswestry) as detailed in the SOBC submitted to the Department for Transport, has officially been scrapped. That said, CHR does have a further 40 years of lease on the entire line, and it is only the cancellation of the second stage HS2 that brought the plans for restoring the Oswestry Branch Line forward.
The money from the alleged HS2 fund has been debunked ages ago. Even the PM at the time stated it wouldn't be there dispite him saying it would originally. That really is clutching at straws.
The plans for that have been in existence for years but all the reports I have seen have implied it is very unlikely to happen., pastky confirmed by the reconstruction of the A5/ A483 junction recently.
To be quite frank, your "group" would be far better concentrating on a simple preservation line based on and around Oswestry Station and running the short distance down to Wharf, and accept that you will not be getting a level crossing or two opened over a major trunk road. People I have spoken to in the area have been disuaded from joining you because of your proposals, and have instead moved to other groups like the Welshpool or the Corwen.
I am not in this "group". I opposed the granting of the TWAO. I believe the whole project is delusional. But, let me restate the facts once more:
FACT: Railtrack expressed an interested in selling off the unused line but didn't want to engage with the heritage railway operator so Shropshire County Council purchased the line.
FACT: Local MP Owen Paterson instigated the negotiations regarding purchase of the line, in part, to encourage reopening the line.
FACT: Current local MP Helen Morgan strongly supports the reopening of the line, as does Shropshire Council, Oswestry Town Council and Selattyn & Gobowen Parish Council.
FACT: Chris Greyling, at the time Transport Secretary, granted the TWAO once it was stated that the railway wouldn't cross the A5 and A483 on the level.
FACT: Oswestry Railway Station exterior is currently being renovated at a cost of almost £1 million with only Cambrian Heritage Railways currently using the building (with no liability).
My 2 BIG questions are how much is this fantasy costing and who is responsible for safety and maintenance of where the line meets a public right of way?
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PS. You mentioned a "business case" in your post. I have tried time and again to see a copy of a Business Plan submitted by CHR to Shropshire Council for the reopening of the line but have been unsuccessful. This may be because CHR is a private charity rather than a public organisation.
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And another film from YouTube uploaded just a day ago by JP Level Crossings UK titled "Oswestry A5 Level Crossing, Shropshire (16/11/2024). This one is silent, except for the noise of the passing traffic, and looks in detail at the mechanical state of the crossing as it exists today and the marked lack of maintenance.
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I'm still trying to find out who maintains the level crossings along the Oswestry branch railway line. I recently contacted Network Rail stating that
I live in an area where a charity has been leased 8.5 miles of railway over which it operates a service along approx. 1.5 miles, over which one pedestrian level crossing sits. The level crossing is in a poor state of repair for pedestrians, but as the railway operator is a charity using volunteers so it has no responsibility for maintaining the line for pedestrians.
There are a number of other level crossings over much used A roads on the same line (but as yet not used by the train operator). The landowner, the ORR and the DfT all deny responsibility for maintaining these level crossings. I'm still awaiting a reply from Highways England.
My question is, can a charity maintain level crossings?
And Network Rail responded: "Apologies, but after checking our mapping systems, this location and crossing is not being leased from Network Rail by the charity. We do not own this track or the level crossing and are unable to give advice on how this crossing should be maintained as it is not ours."
It's 25th November 2024 and I want to take this opportunity to set the record straight regarding safety and maintenance of the level crossings on the Oswestry branch line, namely over the A5, A483, A495, Thomas Savin Road, School Lane and the pedestrian crossing at Coney Green:
The Rail and Safety Standards Board as of 27th October 2024: "RSSB is not involved with activities of heritage railways and therefore cannot comment on the maintenance of the Cambrian Heritage Railway (CHR) between Oswestry and Llynclys. However, it appears that the CHR is connected to a freight only branch which is probably owned and maintained by Network Rail. We do not have the relevant local knowledge relating to boundaries between the two activities and suggest Network Rail would be best placed to advise you on the point you have raised".
Shropshire Council as of 22nd October 2024: "We do not own nor carry out inspections on level crossings, the ownership would be Network Rail".
Network Rail as of 23rd October 2024: "The requested level crossings along Oswestry branch line are not maintained by Network Rail. This line is owned and operated by the heritage railway, Cambrian Railways".
The Office of Rail and Road as of 2nd November 2017: "Under Civil Law the 'Duty of Care' not to put others at risk remains and were there to be a failure of that duty by those responsible for the railway (or least ways it's insurers) may be open to action in the Civil Courts".
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And another YouTube clip here, over a year old, uploaded by the local newspaper, Shropshire Star. This one features our current LibDem MP welcoming the news that the Oswestry Branch Railway Line have won the bid to get the restoration funding.
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In my endless quest to get answers to exactly who is responsible for safety and maintenance along the Oswestry branch line I sent an email off to Green Dragon earlier today that reads:
"I understand from the submission of a Transport & Works Act Order to the Department for Transport that you are, or were a safety consultant for a charity called Cambrian Heritage Railways in Oswestry, Shropshire. The railway track over which the Transport Order applies is owned by Shropshire Council and runs over a couple of level crossings on public highways, including the A5 and A483, plus a pedestrian crossing at Coney Green in Oswestry. Was your company commissioned by CHR to advise on the maintenance and safety of these level crossings?"
And to their great credit Green Dragon responded almost immediately thus:
"Unfortunatly we are unable to discuss client’s instructions to us without their express permission. I suggest you contact the railway directly..."
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So, earlier today I sent another email to Green Dragon that reads:
"According to the Transport and Works Act Order, Green Dragon has been advising Cambrian Heritages Railways on the safety of their operations. The 8.5 miles of line crosses the A5, A483 and the A495 on the level, but these stretches of the line are unused by the railway.
There is, however, a pedestrian level crossing at Coney Green in Oswestry that is used regularly by the railway operator. This crossing is showing increasing signs of deterioration, so much so that pushchair and mobility scooter users are having to make long detours to cross the line.
I have approached both Shropshire Council and Network Rail to ascertain who has responsibility for safety and maintenance of these crossings. Shropshire Council have told me it's Network Rail and Network Rail have told me it's the railway operator. Neither organisation carries out their own inspections of these crossings.
I have also asked Cambrian Heritages Railways but have failed to get an answer.
My understanding is that the railway operator has a duty of care under civil law to maintain these structures, and yet when I look at their accounts I cannot locate any reference to an insurance policy that would be an any way adequately cover the premium of maintenance responsibility for the A5 or A483 level crossings.
Should a member of the public trip and injure themselves whilst crossing at Coney Green they could pursue a case against CHR for lack of maintenance. Worse still, an accident were to occur on one of the A roads.
I am very worried about this situation. Do you appreciate my concerns?"
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Quick as a flash, Green Dragon have responded thus:
"I can go no further that to repeat what my colleges have said"
To be honest, RailUK, I wasn't really expecting them to be helpful, so I sent them the following:
"I can see that no matter how I pose the question to preserve the confidentiality of your client you will not answer the very serious point I have raised.
Thank you for your time acknowledging my emails. At least I can take some reassurance that I have made you aware of the problems associated with this line by your responses to this correspondence.
It's interesting to note that you hold client confidentiality above safety to the public.
Your responses have been noted."
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Another upload from YouTube here. This one is a year old called "Exploring Porth y Waen Station" by RWH Trains and is a subtitled video that takes a look at both of the level crossings, one at School Lane and the other over the A495. To set this clip in context it shows the tail end of the Oswestry branch line restoration project. The long term ambition to take freight from Blodwel Quarry up the line to Gobowen.
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