Overnight Break of Journey? Preston-Birmingham, Birmingham-Ipswich, Ipswich-Preston

[peterblue]

I was wondering if this is allowed.

I wish to make a journey from Preston to Ipswich on Saturday/Sunday 18/19 July, departing sometime in the early afternoon. I have a friend near Birmingham whom I wish to travel with. Is it allowed to, make a journey from Preston to Birmingham on the 18th, break my journey overnight, then resume my travel on the morning of the 19th with my companion from Birmingham to Ipswich?

The ticket I would plan to buy is here: http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=PRE&dest=IPS&rlc=YNG for £90.95 off peak return via London. I'm using this ticket as I would like the additional flexibility.

 

[hkstudent]

I was wondering if this is allowed.

I wish to make a journey from Preston to Ipswich on Saturday/Sunday 18/19 July, departing sometime in the early afternoon. I have a friend near Birmingham whom I wish to travel with. Is it allowed to, make a journey from Preston to Birmingham on the 18th, break my journey overnight, then resume my travel on the morning of the 19th with my companion from Birmingham to Ipswich?

The ticket I would plan to buy is here: http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=PRE&dest=IPS&rlc=YNG for £90.95 off peak return via London. I'm using this ticket as I would like the additional flexibility.

It is permitted to pass-through Birmingham, so there shouldn't be a problem for via Birmingham journeys.
There seems to be no restriction on code 2C or CG for overnight break of journeys.

Not sure if not via London option may apply if OP takes XC train to Ely

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I was wondering if this is allowed.

I wish to make a journey from Preston to Ipswich on Saturday/Sunday 18/19 July, departing sometime in the early afternoon. I have a friend near Birmingham whom I wish to travel with. Is it allowed to, make a journey from Preston to Birmingham on the 18th, break my journey overnight, then resume my travel on the morning of the 19th with my companion from Birmingham to Ipswich?

The ticket I would plan to buy is here: http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=PRE&dest=IPS&rlc=YNG for £90.95 off peak return via London. I'm using this ticket as I would like the additional flexibility.

It is permitted, but only as follows (as per National Rail Enquiries);

Off-Peak Singles and the outward portion of Off-Peak Returns are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following morning. If the journey cannot be completed in this time, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day.

Accordingly you are only permitted to break your journey overnight if there is no longer a valid through connection to Ipswich (via Birmingham if desired) on the first day of validity, at the time you depart.

Some people claims that "journey cannot be completed" means you can't break your journey overnight if there is any valid itinerary that doesn't require an overnight stay, but that is certainly not the interpretation that journey planners (which have to pass accreditation) and indeed the NRE fares finder take. And it would have ludicrous and untenable implications for Off-Peak Returns for long journeys such as Wick to Penzance.

In practice you are likely to encounter considerable difficulties in using the outward portion of an Off-Peak Return on the second day of validity and you should be prepared for the possibility that you will be forced to buy a new ticket because unknowledgeable staff (especially at barriers) claim that they "know the rules and it's it valid". Especially on the Underground.

It may be that there is a cheaper option, and one involving less hassle, if you split tickets. TrainSplit may be able to suggest something for you, if you start off your outward leg late in the evening (in time for the last Preston to Birmingham train) and select 'flexible tickets' only.

 

[CyrusWuff]

One thing to be aware of, if travelling via London, is that London Underground don't honour the extended validity for the outward portion of such tickets, so you would need to pay for any LU travel on the second day separately.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

One thing to be aware of, if travelling via London, is that London Underground don't honour the extended validity for the outward portion of such tickets, so you would need to pay for any LU travel on the second day separately.

I wonder what happens with interavailable routes... Are they only interavailable on LU on the first day of validity? Either answer results in a ludicrous outcome!

This restriction is also something that journey planners do not implement in their itineraries. If someone is told they can break their journey overnight, then travel to London and cross London using the Underground on the second day, all using an Off-Peak Return... They would have recourse against LU and/or the ticket retailer for breach of contract.

 

[peterblue]

And note that I'd rather it be one ticket because if I bought Preston-Birmingham and Birmingham-Ipswich I'd have to travel back from Ipswich to Preston on a convoluted route (either via Ely or taking the slower Euston-Preston train which stops in birmingham)

 

[peterblue]

>
Accordingly you are only permitted to break your journey overnight if there is no longer a valid through connection to Ipswich (via Birmingham if desired) on the first day of validity, at the time you depart.


It would be possible to complete it all in one day albeit with a late finish; but it would be most convenient (and also cheapest as I would overnight at a friends house instead of at a Hotel) doing it over 2 days.

If the rules are that I can only break overnight if there is NO other alternative, then I suppose my idea would not be valid.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

>
Accordingly you are only permitted to break your journey overnight if there is no longer a valid through connection to Ipswich (via Birmingham if desired) on the first day of validity, at the time you depart.


It would be possible to complete it all in one day albeit with a late finish; but it would be most convenient (and also cheapest as I would overnight at a friends house instead of at a Hotel) doing it over 2 days.

If the rules are that I can only break overnight if there is NO other alternative, then I suppose my idea would not be valid.

It is valid to break your journey overnight so long as you set off for Birmingham after the last connection to Ipswich leaves. However your ticket isn't going to be accepted on the Tube on the second day of validity, and you are likely to encounter difficulties at New Street/Birmingham, as well as Liverpool Street and Ipswich.

 

[Hadders]

The outward portion of the ticket is actually valid until 04:29 on day 3. This was clarified by a very helpful member of this forum who, at the time the post linked to below was written was authoritative on the subject. There is no requirement to travel as far as you can etc.

Revised NRCoC

Have you ever actually tried either of these options? From my experience ticket office staff don't know the answers to any but the most obvious questions. The last time I mentioned the routing guide at one it was clear that the staff member I was talking to had never heard of it. In my area it...

www.railforums.co.uk

Just to clear this up, you can choose where you break your journey overnight if you need to do so. You do not have to travel to the furthest possible point (after all, there might not be anywhere to stay there, so that would be daft!).

Break of journey used to be barred on the outward portion of Savers, but has been allowed since 2008 (since they became off-peak tickets) unless specifically restricted in the restriction code for the specific journey - this only applies to a small number of journeys.

So things are getting more flexible, not less!

A supplementary Q&A has been sent out to staff now to deal with some of the questions that have arisen, this will also hopefully clear up any confusion.

That said, I agree with @ForTheLoveOf in that I would not expect a hassle free journey if you try to use the ticket on day 2.

 

[Haywain]

Accordingly you are only permitted to break your journey overnight if there is no longer a valid through connection to Ipswich (via Birmingham if desired) on the first day of validity, at the time you depart.

This is not stated in the paragraph you quote, and no such restriction exists. Whether the words "If the journey cannot be completed in this time" are deliberately or accidentally ambiguous is an unknown factor but it has not been stated why the journey cannot be completed.

That said, the OP needs to be aware that any continuation of a journey on the second day has the possibility of difficulty being encountered.

 

[JBuchananGB]

I cranked your plans into transplit, with a forced change at Birmingham and a requested 99 minute changeover time and it produces itineraries departing Preston 16.07, then long delay in Birmingham, with onward travel departing there 22.14 and staying overnight in London. I would argue that with such an itinerary the journey really can't be completed on the first day, and you could overnight in Birmingham instead then start from Birmingham on the 08.30, and onward to Ipswich leaving Liverpool Street at 11.30.

Trainsplit also knocked a few pence of the ticket price by splitting at Manningtree, but I would be cautious about that because it might issue the Manningtree to Ipswich ticket for the 18th when you would need it for the 19th.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I cranked your plans into transplit, with a forced change at Birmingham and a requested 99 minute changeover time and it produces itineraries departing Preston 16.07, then long delay in Birmingham, with onward travel departing there 22.14 and staying overnight in London. I would argue that with such an itinerary the journey really can't be completed on the first day, and you could overnight in Birmingham instead then start from Birmingham on the 08.30, and onward to Ipswich leaving Liverpool Street at 11.30.

You could mess about with TrainSplit even more to get it to show an overnight stay in Birmingham, though probably not for the 16:07 from Preston (on a weekday).

That said, given there shouldn't be any issues in using the ticket on the first day, I don't think there is any need to get a suggested itinerary with a departure from Preston that "early". Just put in a departure after 20:00, as the last itinerary to Ipswich via Birmingham on a weekday currently departs at 19:18. It's getting it to suggest the first Off-Peak service for the second day of validity that could then be challenging.

Trainsplit also knocked a few pence of the ticket price by splitting at Manningtree, but I would be cautious about that because it might issue the Manningtree to Ipswich ticket for the 18th when you would need it for the 19th.

TrainSplit will always issue tickets for the correct date. Doing otherwise would be quite a mistake, the kind that would be picked up in testing and (possibly) accreditation.