I’m currently travelling on the return portion of a Harrogate-Manchester anytime short return, having taken the 23:19 Northern service from Manchester Victoria. My plan is to stay overnight at Todmorden and continue on to Harrogate in the morning. However, the guard has said that this is not allowed and has marked my ticket as used. I’m pretty sure that he is wrong and that I am right, i.e. that overnight break of journey is allowed on the return portion of an anytime ticket, but would appreciate it if someone could confirm this thanks.
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Overnight break of journey
- Thread starter RonnieMac
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PermitToTravel
Established Member
you're right
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, this is allowed, and the marking on the ticket does not prevent it.
It's the outward portion of those on which overnight BoJ is not allowed.
It's the outward portion of those on which overnight BoJ is not allowed.
The Guard is wrong. Write to Northern and let me know what they said; Northern had previously said they would provide a reminder to Guards.
I do t know why some Guards make this up. But they are wrong to do so.
The mark indicates the journey has commenced and is in progress. It does not in any way indicate the ticket has been wholy unused . It does not cease to be valid between Todmorden and Harrogate.
I am now at Todmorden ticket office and the cashier, although helpful, is saying that the ticketing structure changed when the anytime short returns were introduced a while ago and that they do NOT permit overnight break of journey on the return portion, and that if I want to do that I would have to purchase instead a standard open return at a much more exorbitant price
I would pay what they say, ask them to put it in writing.
This can then be used as evidence against Northern. You can get a refund and the matter can be referred to relevant organisations as evidence of a breach of consumer law, contract law and the company's franchise agreement.
I am happy to proof read any letters you wish to send.
Now the ticket clerk has got back to me (I gave him my number) and said that, after looking into it further, that overnight break of journey IS allowed on this ticket! It’s all very confusing though when even the staff don’t seem to be aware of the rules, but fair play to him for investigating further.
I had gone off in the meantime to borrow some money from a friend to get a weekly season, which I’ve ended up getting anyway as I will be doing a lot of travelling over the next few days (an elderly relative is very ill in hospital) and can do without the hassle of having my tickets questioned!
I had gone off in the meantime to borrow some money from a friend to get a weekly season, which I’ve ended up getting anyway as I will be doing a lot of travelling over the next few days (an elderly relative is very ill in hospital) and can do without the hassle of having my tickets questioned!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Oh look, more ticket office staff who are trying to ensure that the ticket offices are closed and replaced with TVMs and online sales. I thought it was just Merseyrail that liked doing that
The change that was made was that overnight Break of Journey is not permitted on the outward - on a proper Anytime Return (there has not been such thing as a "Standard Open Return" for years) you can break overnight in both directions.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
At least he was willing to learn in this case (sorry, your follow-up came in just as I was posting mine). That is actually quite good service - most would not phone someone and admit being wrong! Previous point rescinded for this case, though I do wish the training was better!
If you have paid extra for your journey today, please do write to Northern asking for a refund of the extra sums paid. If the only journey you are making today is to Harrogate then the Season should not start today.
Either way, please do write to Northern. If you state the train you caught they will be able to identify the Guard.
Years ago Northern told myself and others that this would not happen again. Yet it still does keep happening. So it needs to be properly reported.
The ticket clerk worth an appreciation. You may send a letter of appreciation to Northern for that. We need more willing-to-learn staff.
Keep the message as concise and descriptive as possible, stating the facts clearly. Yes, do mention the interaction with the ticket clerk. It is worth including praise in a message to those staff who do [eventually] get it right as well as expressing concerns where they don't. This should generate a good response (and if it doesn't we can escalate it as appropriate).
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