Overriding Query

[M60lad]

I'm not planning or condoning this, but how easy is it to override on trains?

The reason why I ask is that I've had my ticket checked a few times in the past and stayed on the train beyond the station I should have got off at and the conductor has come down the train and completely ignored me and not mentioned anything.

Before anyone has a go at me for overriding I have a TfGM Bus Pass which allows me free travel on trains in GM and I always buy a ticket to the first station in Greater Manchester when I'm out of the area so I'm not overriding as such but there have been times when I've forgot to show my bus pass with my ticket and as I've already said the conductor hasn't said a thing

 

[Chapeltom]

Very easy.

I did this today:

Chapel en le Frith to Prescot. Held tickets for Chapel en le Frith to Hazel Grove, Hazel Grove to Bryn. No ticket inspections either train from Wigan NW to Prescot, ticket office shut at Prescot. I didn't pay for my Bryn to Prescot leg.

Happens all the time, even if its completely unintentional.

 

[GadgetMan]

As a guard, we tend to remember checking a passengers 'ticket'. If we have between 25-300 passengers on board, it's not possible to remember exactly what each person's destination on their ticket is.

When we walk through a train, we tend to remember faces and what seat people are in, so the guard would walk past you knowing he had already checked your ticket and you had a valid one.

Occasionally someone will draw attention to themselves by buying a ticket to the next station to get through barriers, or buy a ticket to an unusual (quiet) station on the route. These are the people that tend to get noticed and questioned for overriding.

Someone overriding is more likely to be detected if RPIs board and carry out a full ticket check, or if a different guard relieves the train on-route and does the above.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

5. Penalty for avoiding payment of fare.

(3) If any person—
(b) Having paid his fare for a certain distance, knowingly and wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent to avoid payment thereof;
. . .
he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, or, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, either to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, or in the discretion of the court to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months.

Regulation of Railways Act 1889
Note that that Offence appears not to be committed if the passenger is over-travelling by Rail-Replacement bus or by Taxi (although definitions elsewhere may be applied to expand the definition of 'Train' to include those alternatives - I'm not aware that such expansions have been tested).
The term of three months was increased to 51 weeks by the Criminal Justice Act 2003 and is becoming effective now.

Similar wording appears in S.103 of the Railway Clauses Consolidation Act 1845 but with the additional ability to construe the passenger as having committed a Trespass, which brings additional penalties.

 

[bnm]

I've overridden a couple of times recently. Down to falling asleep.

Nothing worse than being woken up by ISS cleaners at Birmingham New Street when you'd intended to get off at Bristol Temple Meads.... made doubly worse by being the last service and no chance of a train home that night. Cost me £40 for a cheap hotel plus a train fare home the next morning.

The other occasion was waking at Cardiff Central. Fortunately on that occasion there was still chance to get a train back to Bristol.

 

[scrapy]

I'm not planning or condoning this, but how easy is it to override on trains?

The reason why I ask is that I've had my ticket checked a few times in the past and stayed on the train beyond the station I should have got off at and the conductor has come down the train and completely ignored me and not mentioned anything.

The conductor will have assumed you were going to a station where your TFGM pass is valid to. If you travel outside the TFGM area it is your responsibility to buy a ticket for the part of your journey not covered by your pass, at the earliest opportunity. This could be at the ticket office or on train if the station is unstaffed.

 

[Eeveevolve]

This reminds me of a week last wednesday. Slightly inebriated. My usual journey of Leeds to huddersfield. A breeze. Woke up pulling into Manchester Airport. Went straight to the TP conductor who said 'You wont be the first, you wont be the last. Sadly there isn't any trains back to Hudds tonight, but ill have a word with the northern conductor over there to see if he can get you to Picadilly.'

No mention of tickets and very understanding.

 

[323235]

Very easy.

I did this today:

Chapel en le Frith to Prescot. Held tickets for Chapel en le Frith to Hazel Grove, Hazel Grove to Bryn. No ticket inspections either train from Wigan NW to Prescot, ticket office shut at Prescot. I didn't pay for my Bryn to Prescot leg.

Happens all the time, even if its completely unintentional.

Was there not an opportunity to buy your Bryn - Prescot ticket at Wigan Wallgate or Wigan North Western ticket offices before boarding the train?

 

[142094]

I once over-rode on a ranger ticket as I jumped on the first southbound EC train I saw - not realising first stop was York and I wanted to get off at Darlington. So had to buy a new ticket from York back to Darlo to continue my journey.

 

[yorkie]

Was there not an opportunity to buy your Bryn - Prescot ticket at Wigan Wallgate or Wigan North Western ticket offices before boarding the train?

The rule is that the ticket(s) should have been purchased at the first opportunity, which is likely to be on the train between Chapel en le Frith and Manchester Piccadilly. If the guard on that train is unable to issue the ticket, then the next opportunity may either be a ticket office or on one of the subsequent trains, depending on the time of the next train, any late running, and the ticket office opening hours (without knowing the times of travel it is absolutely impossible to say whether he should have attempted to purchase the ticket at Wigan, nor whether it was possible to).