Oxenholme connections

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Old Yard Dog

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What is the point of running Oxenholme-Windermere shuttles if the train doesn't wait when the incoming train is delayed? Yesterday the 1228 refused to wait 4 mins for the slightly delayed 1222 Cross Country arrival. The reason is obvious - the unit had a subsequent 4-minute turn around at Windermere before working back through to Manchester Airport.

Why is there so little slack in the timetable? Surely a 6-minute connection with long-distance trains at Oxenholme is optimistic in the extreme.

Rather than face a 65 minute wait, I took a bus to Kendal and was thus deprived on my planned ride down the branch before the game at Kendal Town FC.

A similarly poor connection was discovered on the way home at Ormskirk, where the Preston train arrives at 1905 and the Liverpool train departs at 1905. It didn't wait. At least Northern had the sense to swap the one-car 153 for a two-car 142 with the Liverpool - Wigan line being busstituted.

Interestingly the various national timetabling websites were advising Liverpool - Preston passengers to take the bus to Wigan rather than use the Ormskirk or Kirkby routes.
 
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mullin

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It does my head in too when planning on going walking in the Lakes. Virgin run 2 minutes late from Wigan, the delays move slightly up each time, 3 from Preston, 5 from Lancaster, pull in to Oxenholme and you see the Windermere bound train pulling out the platform.

A lovely 45 minute wait, which then messes up later connections from Windermere for buses, which means cutting walks shorter as we arrive at the start well over an hour after we planned.
 

radamfi

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The TOCs don't want you to attempt connections. They only want you to use direct services.

Some people will now make the excuses why it is impossible to make connections in the UK and say that other countries that do connections have geographical and demographical peculiarities that make it easy for them and hard for us.
 

pmgarvey

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It does my head in too when planning on going walking in the Lakes. Virgin run 2 minutes late from Wigan, the delays move slightly up each time, 3 from Preston, 5 from Lancaster, pull in to Oxenholme and you see the Windermere bound train pulling out the platform.

A lovely 45 minute wait, which then messes up later connections from Windermere for buses, which means cutting walks shorter as we arrive at the start well over an hour after we planned.
The answer is clear, go to Penrith, bus to Keswick, walk the nicer hills ;)

And if it's going to run all the way back to Manchester Airport presumably it can't be moved to give a longer connection time because paths are too hard to come across on that route.
 

Eagle

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Yeah, and? Birmingham-Scotland services have been known as interregional or crosscountry for a lot longer than here today, gone tomorrow franchises.
Hey. No need to get narky. I guess I always considered them WC services.

To me CrossCountry (with capitals) always suggests that DB-owned TOC whose trains are silver and maroon.

Sorry if I offended your sensibilities :P
 

yorkie

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Unfortunately in the UK we don't really have proper integrated transport. The reasons the trains do not wait are financial.

However in my experience FGW branch line services do wait if the mainline trains are late, but that is because they are run by the same company. So it would be FGW who pay out for the delay.

In this case, TPE would want compensation from Virgin, so it all becomes rather messy. This silliness doesn't happen in mainland Europe. Ultimately the DfT are to blame (not historically; but they are the ones who are perpetuating the situation by not doing anything about it).
A lovely 45 minute wait, which then messes up later connections from Windermere for buses, which means cutting walks shorter as we arrive at the start well over an hour after we planned.
If it's any consolation, you can claim for compensation for a delay of that extent, the delay applies to the overall journey even if the train wasn't particularly late.
 

YorkshireBear

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The answer is clear, go to Penrith, bus to Keswick, walk the nicer hills ;)
I think that is the best solution to your problem. As i agree 110% northern lake district provides better walks adn the connections there are much better. Plus if you miss bus there is a macdonalds at the station.

Hmmm happy memories of happy days :)
 

Nym

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Theres also a Morrisons near Penrith, but again, that isn't what was asked...

Perhaps one could simply have all Windermere services run to Preston or Lancaster, with 1tp2h running from Manchester Airport...
 

VTPreston_Tez

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It happened to me. The train was one minute late and the connection left 20 seconds as my VT Euston-Glasgow had arrived. They apologised to me on Twitter, claiming "they couldn't hold in services. I considered filing a complaint, so I know how you feel. They didn't even give me compensation.
 

MidnightFlyer

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It happened to me. The train was one minute late and the connection left 20 seconds as my VT Euston-Glasgow had arrived. They apologised to me on Twitter, claiming "they couldn't hold in services. I considered filing a complaint, so I know how you feel. They didn't even give me compensation.
What services were these? I can't see any +1 connection at Oxenholme on any day from the south. You weren't compensated I suspect as you didn't leave enough time to make it an official, refundable connection (5 min at Oxenholme I believe).
 

VTPreston_Tez

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Okay, the train was delayed due to something down in the London area. The train was booked to arrive 1 minute before the TPE, but oh no that doesn't happen. So I had to wait a full hour.
 

ls1911

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What is the point of running Oxenholme-Windermere shuttles if the train doesn't wait when the incoming train is delayed? Yesterday the 1228 refused to wait 4 mins for the slightly delayed 1222 Cross Country arrival. The reason is obvious - the unit had a subsequent 4-minute turn around at Windermere before working back through to Manchester Airport.

Why is there so little slack in the timetable? Surely a 6-minute connection with long-distance trains at Oxenholme is optimistic in the extreme.

Rather than face a 65 minute wait, I took a bus to Kendal and was thus deprived on my planned ride down the branch before the game at Kendal Town FC.

A similarly poor connection was discovered on the way home at Ormskirk, where the Preston train arrives at 1905 and the Liverpool train departs at 1905. It didn't wait. At least Northern had the sense to swap the one-car 153 for a two-car 142 with the Liverpool - Wigan line being busstituted.

Interestingly the various national timetabling websites were advising Liverpool - Preston passengers to take the bus to Wigan rather than use the Ormskirk or Kirkby routes.
To be fair missing the Ormskirk to Liverpool train isnt the world of the world,theres another one in 15minutes!
 

MidnightFlyer

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Okay, the train was delayed due to something down in the London area. The train was booked to arrive 1 minute before the TPE, but oh no that doesn't happen. So I had to wait a full hour.
So it was retimed into OXN one minute before the Windermere connection was booked to leave. If you had left sufficient time (i.e. greater than 5 min) for your connection at Oxenholme had everything been running to plan, then AFAIK it is Virgin you should have contacted for compensation, as they delayed you, not TPE.
 

Eagle

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Okay, the train was delayed due to something down in the London area. The train was booked to arrive 1 minute before the TPE, but oh no that doesn't happen. So I had to wait a full hour.
Well that's not a valid connection then, if the booked times are only one minute apart. And certainly not one I'd think I had a chance of making (even if there are no delays en route, it just needs someone in a wheelchair to board/alight at Lancaster and the VT train instantly loses two or three minutes).
 

VTPreston_Tez

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It wasn't booked 1 minute, it was booked like 15 minutes. On the train we were told the train was now booked to arrive 1 minute, so it's not my fault.
 

Darandio

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1 minute early, should have been 15mins early. Almost needless to say that I ended up missing the connection because of a whole host of other problems (and the driver had a BlackBerry)
I was only quoting what you said initially. You said....

It happened to me. The train was one minute late
Obviously that wasn't the case, but it made a convenient cover story.
 

Eagle

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1 minute early, should have been 15mins early. Almost needless to say that I ended up missing the connection because of a whole host of other problems (and the driver had a BlackBerry)
Can you give us the times of these services so we can understand what the hell you're on about?

Are you saying that the VT is booked to arrive 15 minutes before the TPE, but along the way it is delayed by 14 minutes meaning it actually arrived just 1 minute before the TPE?
 

VTPreston_Tez

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Can you give us the times of these services so we can understand what the hell you're on about?

Are you saying that the VT is booked to arrive 15 minutes before the TPE, but along the way it is delayed by 14 minutes meaning it actually arrived just 1 minute before the TPE?
It was then meant to arrive 1 minute before, it arrives two minutes after that, and this was quite a while ago so timetables will have changed, I think.

VT departs around 13:00 Preston
Arrives Oxenholme 14:15 instead of 13:47 (I think)
TPE leaves 14:13 or around that.
Okay I'm actually confused. Basically, the VT failed to hold in the TPE for two minutes.
 

MidnightFlyer

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It was then meant to arrive 1 minute before, it arrives two minutes after that, and this was quite a while ago so timetables will have changed, I think.

VT departs around 13:00 Preston
Arrives Oxenholme 14:15 instead of 13:47 (I think)
TPE leaves 14:13 or around that.
Okay I'm actually confused. Basically, the VT failed to hold in the TPE for two minutes.
So you were delayed in London but it took you 75 minutes to cover what now takes about 35 minutes? :|
 

VTPreston_Tez

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@Dara Two minutes. It can catch up.
@Eagle I got on at Preston, and I got the timings seriously wrong.
@tbtc It was extremely delayed, he was keeping in contact. And it was the guard, whoops.
EDIT: After hearing Matt, I guess it was the driver. How he got onto the intercom is a shock.
 

exile

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Regardless of the details of this case (I confess I'm totally confused) Oxenholme to Windermere basically exists to provide a connection to/from main line services (there is very little local traffic) so it seems bizarre to time services so there is a good chance the train will run empty if a main line service is a couple of minutes late.
 
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