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Oxford Street to be pedestrianised by 2020

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radamfi

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Obviously this will have a significant impact on buses so I'm undecided about this. Perhaps the road could be made electric buses only?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36791485

Oxford Street will be pedestrianised by 2020, the mayor of London's office has said.

All traffic including buses and taxis will be banned from the shopping street - one of the most famous in the world - as part of Sadiq Khan's plans to tackle air pollution.

More than four million people visit Oxford Street each week. City Hall said the project would be rolled out in two stages to reduce disruption on the 1.2-mile street.
 
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jon0844

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So what happens to the roads that cross Oxford Street? If they're cut off, how does that work - and how many buses will terminate at each end, as against diverting?

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Bletchleyite

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Would be ideal for a tram route - Euston to Marble Arch, perhaps? Plenty of scope for good connections at each end.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So what happens to the roads that cross Oxford Street? If they're cut off, how does that work - and how many buses will terminate at each end, as against diverting?

I'd probably expect it to be pedestrian sections, with the main crossing roads still crossing.
 

Deerfold

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Would be ideal for a tram route - Euston to Marble Arch, perhaps? Plenty of scope for good connections at each end.

I'd probably expect it to be pedestrian sections, with the main crossing roads still crossing.

Unfortunately large numbers of people will be inconvenienced if this goes ahead. There's a lack of alternatives to send a huge number of buses down.

How many through passengers will want to change at each end? Are we going to have to build facilities for this - how much of the street do we knock down to do this?

If we're going to dig up Central London for a new tram I'd be more impressed if it was going to run for more than 2 miles.

Between Marble Arch and Baker Street there's 20 high frequency bus routes passing, along with pretty much all National Express coaches to the North - do they all end up on Edgware Road?

I'd be interested in where they are all going to go and how much this would disadvantage passengers - especially poorer and less mobile passengers.

As usual, this story ignores the fact that the number of buses along Oxford Street has fallen by about 20% in recent years with TfL cutting some buses which terminate or used to terminate on the street back.
 

radamfi

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By 2020 we will have the one hour bus ticket, so at least extra changing won't cost any extra and there will be less need for overlapping routes as people will be able to get the first bus that comes along that goes at least some of the way. That should save a lot of buses.
 
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telstarbox

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@Deerfold - you make a good point about TfL buses, but why can't the coaches already go from Marble Arch to the M1 via Edgware Road rather than Oxford Street and Baker Street?

A short tram route would have a huge cost per passenger km and you'd need to put a depot somewhere on very expensive land.
 
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Deerfold

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By 2020 we will have the one hour bus ticket, so at least extra changing won't cost any extra and there will be less need for overlapping routes as people will be able to get the first bus that comes along that goes at least some of the way. That should save a lot of buses.

That depends. If you're going from Stoke Newington to Victoria on a 73 it already takes over an hour. This will add 2 changes and add to the cost - disadvantaging the poorer and less mobile passengers.

@Deerfold - you make a good point about TfL buses, but why can't the coaches already go from Marble Arch to the M1 via Edgware Road rather than Oxford Street and Baker Street?

Simply because that route is slower - before adding another few frequent bus routes to Edgware Road.
 

Antman

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This has been on the cards for years, in fact I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That depends. If you're going from Stoke Newington to Victoria on a 73 it already takes over an hour. This will add 2 changes and add to the cost - disadvantaging the poorer and less mobile passengers.



Simply because that route is slower - before adding another few frequent bus routes to Edgware Road.

A lot of routes have been chopped up over the years in the name of reliability disadvantaging the poorer and less mobile passengers. The 73 went to Hammersmith once, even Hounslow on a Sunday.

I would imagine the 73 might be rerouted and still do Stoke Newington to Victoria?
 

Andyh82

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Between Marble Arch and Baker Street there's 20 high frequency bus routes passing, along with pretty much all National Express coaches to the North - do they all end up on Edgware Road?.

I've always found that part a bit odd am surprised they didn't tackle this year's ago. You've basically got long distance traffic going down the main shopping street, which rarely happens in many small towns up and down the country never mind London.

Regarding the rest of Oxford Street, presumably buses like the 30, 25, 55 would terminate at Tottenham Court Road, buses like the 7 & 189 would terminate at Marble Arch. Others like the 10 & 73, 98 and 390 would have to be diverted. What happens to routes. What happens to routes that go along Oxford Street and down Regent Street would be more of a question, possibly via Wigmore street then down regent street?
 
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Antman

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I've always found that part a bit odd am surprised they didn't tackle this year's ago. You've basically got long distance traffic going down the main shopping street, which rarely happens in many small towns up and down the country never mind London.

Regarding the rest of Oxford Street, presumably buses like the 30, 25, 55 would terminate at Tottenham Court Road, buses like the 7 & 189 would terminate at Marble Arch. Others like the 10 & 73, 98 and 390 would have to be diverted. What happens to routes. What happens to routes that go along Oxford Street and down Regent Street would be more of a question, possibly via Wigmore street then down regent street?

I would think the 55 will terminate at Tottenham Court Road, the 30 doesn't actually go there and the 25 will probably be cut back further east when Crossrail opens.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Between Marble Arch and Baker Street there's 20 high frequency bus routes passing, along with pretty much all National Express coaches to the North - do they all end up on Edgware Road?

It's only guess, but my suspicion would be that pedestrianizing 'between Marble Arch and Tottenham Court road' actually means pedestrianizing between Gloucester Place and Tottenham Court Road, leaving the tiny stretch West of Gloucester Place open to traffic. Possibly even as far as Baker Street. TfL are probably loosely saying 'Marble Arch' because it's a landmark that people will be familiar with.

Note that TfL are working on removing the one-way system along Baker Street and Gloucester Place, which would presumably mean that coaches would not need to use Baker Street - they could use Gloucester Place in both directions.

(Edit: I see Gloucester Place turns into Portman St at the South end, so for 'Gloucester Place' read 'Portman St' in the above :) )
 
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deltic

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Isn't most of Oxford St Westminster City Council controlled road so not sure Mayor can enforce pedestrianisation. The coach issue will reduce when Victoria Coach stn closes. Very few people travel through Oxford St on bus. When this was looked at before Boris came to power and binned the idea it was found that at least 3 buses operated on each major corridor into Oxford St and they could be rerouted so one served Marble Arch, one Oxford Circus and one Tottenham Court Rd.

With Crossrail the opportunity will be taken to reduce the number of buses in central London anyway.
 

jon0844

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How do people who might not be so able bodied get up and down Oxford Street to shop in the future? It's a long road, and I'm sure people with freedom passes may well hop on and off any bus to get up/down.

Personally, I can see more and more non-tourists just going to Westfield and the like.
 

Andyh82

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As well as buses, you've got the more middle class types who expect to walk out of a shop with their shopping bags and hail a cab immediately outside.

I can't see the taxi drivers and their relevant unions or drivers associations or whatever being particularly happy either.
 

Bletchleyite

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As well as buses, you've got the more middle class types who expect to walk out of a shop with their shopping bags and hail a cab immediately outside.

Those people are the nub of the problem - it's taxis that block efficient bus operation near enough throughout London, but even more so in very busy areas like that.
 

deltic

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Those people are the nub of the problem - it's taxis that block efficient bus operation near enough throughout London, but even more so in very busy areas like that.

Most taxi ranks have now been moved off Oxford St
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is the VCS redevelopment still happening? It seems to have gone quite quiet.

Yes still going ahead
 
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Busaholic

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It'll be regretted, bigtime. Not properly thought through. Just ban those polluting taxis!
 

Antman

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It'll be regretted, bigtime. Not properly thought through. Just ban those polluting taxis!

If only it were that simple.

Such are the crowds along there at busy times that people are spilling out into the road.

Why will it be regretted big time?
 

Deerfold

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This has been on the cards for years, in fact I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner.\

It's been requested several times, looked at and no-one wanted to touch it with a barge pole.

I'm not surprised it hasn't happened

A lot of routes have been chopped up over the years in the name of reliability disadvantaging the poorer and less mobile passengers. The 73 went to Hammersmith once, even Hounslow on a Sunday.

Chopped up, yes - but few left a major destination in London unserved. And then you could still reach the destination by changing - there's few major streets within half a mile of some of the stops that would no longer be served.

And I seem to remember that any changes nowadays have an impact assessment to see who will be negatively affected.

Plus, the fact it's happened before doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it again.

I would imagine the 73 might be rerouted and still do Stoke Newington to Victoria?

And again, I ask - where are you rerouting this bus - along with all the others. How many people will find it no longer takes them where they want to go?

I think the stores on Oxford Street may also underestimate how many of their customers arrive and leave by bus.

Those people are the nub of the problem - it's taxis that block efficient bus operation near enough throughout London, but even more so in very busy areas like that.

Quite - I'd ban taxis and see what effect that has. If Oxford street doesn't get much faster for other public transport users *then* go ahead with banning buses too.

For those catching taxis, there's no problem so long as taxis can still cross Oxford Street.
 
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Antman

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It's been requested several times, looked at and no-one wanted to touch it with a barge pole.

I'm not surprised it hasn't happened



Chopped up, yes - but few left a major destination in London unserved. And then you could still reach the destination by changing - there's few major streets within half a mile of some of the stops that would no longer be served.

And I seem to remember that any changes nowadays have an impact assessment to see who will be negatively affected.

Plus, the fact it's happened before doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it again.



And again, I ask - where are you rerouting this bus - along with all the others. How many people will find it no longer takes them where they want to go?

I think the stores on Oxford Street may also underestimate how many of their customers arrive and leave by bus.

More of a case of it being swept under the carpet and left for another day.

We'll have to wait and see what changes are made to bus routes but I've no doubt people will manage.

The massive queues to get into Oxford Circus tube station at times speak for themselves and I'm sure Crossrail will be very popular when it opens.
 

Deerfold

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The massive queues to get into Oxford Circus tube station at times speak for themselves and I'm sure Crossrail will be very popular when it opens.

Indeed - and that's often what sends me off to catch a bus.
 

Bletchleyite

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Quite - I'd ban taxis and see what effect that has. If Oxford street doesn't get much faster for other public transport users *then* go ahead with banning buses too.

For those catching taxis, there's no problem so long as taxis can still cross Oxford Street.

I'm not even sure they need to be banned. It would probably be sufficient to rejig the road layout to allow for some taxi ranks, and then ban *stopping* except when fully within marked bays by all vehicles[1] except emergency vehicles attending a callout.

The thing I would ban is pedicabs, as they really *do* get in the way, but I'm not sure how you would do that without banning cycles generally, which would be less sensible. Indeed, if it is pedestrianised I would be supportive of a narrowish cycle only road down the middle, with Police knocking around to fine those who stray from it without dismounting.

[1] Buses sticking out into the road included. I find it most notable that German bus drivers see it as a matter of pride to align perfectly with the stop, while London drivers seem to like stopping in the middle of the road. If the stops aren't long enough, lengthen them.
 
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Busaholic

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Oxford Street was closed to all traffic between Gloucester Place and Oxford Circus for a year or more back in the late 1990s when Westminster Council were messing around with it, and shoppers deserted it in droves - the Oxford Street Association were up in arms about it. Such short memories, if the stores are really in favour of it. Wigmore Street cannot take all the extra traffic, and in any case is really only suitable for buses heading north up Gloucester Place, as in the old 159 days. Where will terminating buses go? As I said, it's not thought through. If Boris really did put the kibosh on it then I will break the habit and praise him!
 

deltic

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Oxford Street was closed to all traffic between Gloucester Place and Oxford Circus for a year or more back in the late 1990s when Westminster Council were messing around with it, and shoppers deserted it in droves - the Oxford Street Association were up in arms about it. Such short memories, if the stores are really in favour of it. Wigmore Street cannot take all the extra traffic, and in any case is really only suitable for buses heading north up Gloucester Place, as in the old 159 days. Where will terminating buses go? As I said, it's not thought through. If Boris really did put the kibosh on it then I will break the habit and praise him!

That's part of the problem there shouldn't be any terminating buses in central London - if all buses were through could reduce buses by at least a third
 

Busaholic

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That's part of the problem there shouldn't be any terminating buses in central London - if all buses were through could reduce buses by at least a third

That would be a total reversal of the evolution of bus transport in London. Apart from anything else it would require the end of the bus flat fare system, the re-tendering of bus routes so that e.g. Metroline and Stagecoach 'shared' routes and, regrettably, the practicality of traffic congestion, drivers' hours etc would mean buses having to be turned short with sickening regularity i.e. in central London. I do happen to think that certain routes in central London would benefit from quite short extensions but it does not fit the existing ethos, nor the cutbacks which are going to happen because of TfL's precarious financial position.

As for reducing buses by about one third, I'd put it at fewer than 5%, if you mean bus routes within the Circle Line area, roughly, or about 2% overall in London Buses terms.
 
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Ian Hardy

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The problem has been that whenever bus frequencies have been reduced on Oxford Street, taxis / private hire vehicles have filled up the gaps.

Taxis & private hire vehicles should have to pay the full daily congestion charge (without any discount) as they are the ones creating must of the congestion.
 

fgwrich

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Would be ideal for a tram route - Euston to Marble Arch, perhaps? Plenty of scope for good connections at each end.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I'd probably expect it to be pedestrian sections, with the main crossing roads still crossing.

Or, dare I suggest it, actually a better place for an all electric version of First's unfortunate fated FTR? That is Half bus, half tram after all.
 

johntea

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I've been to Oxford Street several times and it isn't somewhere I rush back to often, personally I prefer to find the same chains of shops in much quieter parts of the capital!

...or just save all the hassle and shop online to begin with :lol:
 
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