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Oyster and Crossrail

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silverfoxcc

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Will Oyster be rolled out to Reading prior to full Crossrail operation?

Has there been any announcements about the proposed timescale of implementation?
 
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swt_passenger

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No one knows yet. It has been asked every few weeks for many months.

Personally I expect changes to allow Oyster use on the Heathrow branch following TfL taking over of Connect in May, but don’t see any change at Reading until Crossrail gets there.

Heathrow use doesn’t imply zone 6, might have special fares. People make predictions but TfL haven’t said anything about the details.
 

MarlowDonkey

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but don’t see any change at Reading until Crossrail gets there.

Not just Reading, but also every station west of West Drayton as well as the Windsor, Marlow and Henley Branches. With no through trains, it could be set up so that the Branches were outside of Oyster, the premise being that you touch in or out when changing trains.
 

swt_passenger

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Not just Reading, but also every station west of West Drayton as well as the Windsor, Marlow and Henley Branches. With no through trains, it could be set up so that the Branches were outside of Oyster, the premise being that you touch in or out when changing trains.
Yes I should have said West Drayton to Reading will not change until Crossrail starts.

You raise an interesting point about the 3 branches, I don’t think it’s been raised before.
 

MikeWh

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It wouldn't surprise me if the branches didn't accept Oyster. Reigate isn't included with the Gatwick extension
 

higthomas

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It wouldn't be much different to the ridiculous Shepperton situation.
 

plcd1

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TfL are clearly doing something to update Oyster for Crossrail. A funding paper for "Technology Systems" is going to the Programmes and Investment Cttee next week. Within its many pages is an interesting breakdown of a lot of ticketing initiatives.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20180221-item08-pt-1-tech-and-data.pdf

short quote from paper - not practical to quote all of it!

1.1 This submission presents the strategic case for the overall Technology and Data (T&D) Investment Programme (the Programme). This authority covers financial years 2018/19 and 2019/20. The Programme will return annually to the Committee to renew and validate a rolling two year approval. This enables approvals to be aligned to financial years, which complements the nature of this Programme.

1.2 This paper describes the range of activities undertaken by TfL’s T&D team but the authority sought relates only to those matters for which Programme and Project Authority is required by T&D. The authority request does not include matters where T&D is closely involved in delivery but authorities are secured separately by Surface Transport or London Underground (LU) or matters funded by third parties and which have been specifically authorised (such as Emergency Services Network).

There are two Crossrail related items on the list

- Implementation of new fares model for Elizabeth Line
- Automation of Oyster route charges to generate fares for Crossrail

Given the phasing of the spend the above initiatives complete this year and an extra increment in 2019. There is also a budget line called "Point to Zone" which references the Elizabeth Line. There isn't much detail but the name suggests to me (as I sort of expected) that new western Crossrail stops outside the zonal area will be priced individually and not zonally. This is clearly a guess on my part so no criticism please!

There is also one other interesting line which refers to "Weekly Capping on Card" which confirms a point that was discussed in another thread about how weekly capping will be implemented. This is an ongoing piece of work.

There are also other interesting things like allowing the use of fares concessions (railcards I assume) via the Oyster App, creating a "digital oyster card" for use on mobile phones and system changes to "force" the swapping out of 1st generation Oyster cards. I only wish I could see the expanded descriptions of all of the initiatives!
 

700007

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Also another interesting point to look out for:

Reading will accept Oyster
Redhill and Gatwick Airport accept Oyster

and

London Waterloo to Feltham stations accept Oyster
Reading accept Oyster

Would you be allowed to travel from London to Reading via Bracknell and Reading to Redhill / Gatwick Airport via Dorking stations and Reigate?
 

higthomas

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Also another interesting point to look out for:

Reading will accept Oyster
Redhill and Gatwick Airport accept Oyster

and

London Waterloo to Feltham stations accept Oyster
Reading accept Oyster

Would you be allowed to travel from London to Reading via Bracknell and Reading to Redhill / Gatwick Airport via Dorking stations and Reigate?
I think the answer will be no, but people will do (like those going via Epsom, but worse.)
You can see the people now "I touched in at Reading."
"Yes."
"And I'll touch out at Waterloo."
"Yes."
"So I will be charged for the journey."
"Yes, but here's an £80 penalty fare to make it that bit sweeter."
"******* ****"
 

700007

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I think the answer will be no, but people will do (like those going via Epsom, but worse.)
You can see the people now "I touched in at Reading."
"Yes."
"And I'll touch out at Waterloo."
"Yes."
"So I will be charged for the journey."
"Yes, but here's an £80 penalty fare to make it that bit sweeter."
"******* ****"
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
It will be another one of those beautiful loopholes you find whilst travelling.
 

londonbridge

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It wouldn't surprise me if the branches didn't accept Oyster. Reigate isn't included with the Gatwick extension

No doubt if it was you'd soon get people asking why they couldn't use Oyster to Tonbridge. where do you draw the line?
 

JonathanH

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Also another interesting point to look out for:

Reading will accept Oyster
Redhill and Gatwick Airport accept Oyster

and

London Waterloo to Feltham stations accept Oyster
Reading accept Oyster

Would you be allowed to travel from London to Reading via Bracknell and Reading to Redhill / Gatwick Airport via Dorking stations and Reigate?

At a guess Reading to Gatwick by Oyster will be somewhere between £30 and £40 single at peak times if not more so the paper ticket via Guildford will be cheaper in any case.

And, no, absolutely no chance of Oyster or Contactless being valid Feltham/Redhill to Reading just as it isn't valid Redhill to Swanley/Knockholt/Ewell East/Ewell West or Ewell West to Ewell East via Epsom.

The reasons why it is valid Merstham to Horley are dubious enough - it probably should have been Gatwick only (much as I benefit from it being available at Redhill).
 
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plcd1

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Also another interesting point to look out for:

Reading will accept Oyster
Redhill and Gatwick Airport accept Oyster

and

London Waterloo to Feltham stations accept Oyster
Reading accept Oyster

Would you be allowed to travel from London to Reading via Bracknell and Reading to Redhill / Gatwick Airport via Dorking stations and Reigate?

Almost certainly not on a direct train. Nothing to stop you going via Zone 1 - Oyster would detect the relevant interchanges via Waterloo / Vauxhall / Paddington. I know you could change to Crossrail elsewhere in Zone 1 but you still have an interchange from SWR to the tube that would be detected. IIRC there are no obligations on SWR to do anything about additional Oyster acceptance in their franchise. Furthermore there was not a squeak about it in any announcements when the franchise award was announced. I can't see the current SoS being keen on more Oyster extensions or on franchisees paying money to TfL for such. TfL have no money (or need) to extend Oyster further than on Crossrail 1.
 

JonathanH

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TfL have no money (or need) to extend Oyster further than on Crossrail 1.

Do TfL have to extend Oyster beyond Maidenhead? Reading seems a step too far when it comes to things like the maximum journey cost, particularly with Twyford being ungated for the time being.
 

swt_passenger

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Do TfL have to extend Oyster beyond Maidenhead? Reading seems a step too far when it comes to things like the maximum journey cost, particularly with Twyford being ungated for the time being.
TfL have stated for quite a few years that they do intend to extend Oyster throughout Crossrail, but have they kept saying that since Reading was added?
 

MikeWh

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TfL have stated for quite a few years that they do intend to extend Oyster throughout Crossrail, but have they kept saying that since Reading was added?
I would be astounded if you couldn't use Oyster on a TfL run service.
 

Kite159

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Do TfL have to extend Oyster beyond Maidenhead? Reading seems a step too far when it comes to things like the maximum journey cost, particularly with Twyford being ungated for the time being.

There are several other stations in the oyster area which are ungated so all TfL need to do is install readers by the enterances to the platforms. I can't imagine all the stations between Maidenhead & London will be barriered.
 

plcd1

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Do TfL have to extend Oyster beyond Maidenhead? Reading seems a step too far when it comes to things like the maximum journey cost, particularly with Twyford being ungated for the time being.

I don't think it is anything to do with "have to" more about consistency of service offer. TfL are very keen to automate as much of its ticketing as possible so it makes sense for them to ensure a consistency ticketing offer on a route like Crossrail just as they do on the Overground. There have been more than one Mayoral confirmation on broad ticketing matters for Crossrail - via Mayor's Answers and also reflected in "notes to editors" in TfL press releases. The most important Mayor's Answer came in Boris's time but I've seen nothing from the current Mayor that has altered / contradicted / watered down what Boris said. I'd therefore say the policy agenda was firmly set and TfL are clearly doing work to ensure Oyster will reach Reading. As others have said ungated stns are not a big issue - still some stops on the GOBLIN that are completely ungated although TfL have spent quite heavily to install gates in places where I'd never have expected them. Loads of TOC stns that are ungated with Greater London.

I am sure there will be a range of interesting consequences (caps, deposits, maximum fares etc) about extending Oyster that far west given the fares being charged. We must wait to see how they are handled and, more importantly, explained to the public.
 

matt_world2004

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All gatelines at tfl managed stations as far as taplow will have oyster built into them so it will be bizarre not to retail tickets from these stations on oyster . Any TfL managed station as far as taplow should be able to top up oyster already even if they cannot accept it as a ticket.this appears to indicate to me that oyster will be valid throughout the network.
 

JonathanH

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Installation of ticket gates in progress at Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 station at present - the wooden blocks in place before the actual gates are installed.
 

JaJaWa

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Installation of ticket gates in progress at Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 station at present - the wooden blocks in place before the actual gates are installed.
Are they going for actual gates then? I presumed they would have gone for an Athens-style “open gate line” to allow people to pass through that are:
  • Changing terminal
  • Buying onboard Heathrow Express
Will they be providing free tickets to people that wish to change terminal then? That surely negates the point of the gateline.
 

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mattdickinson

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Are they going for actual gates then? I presumed they would have gone for an Athens-style “open gate line” to allow people to pass through that are:
  • Changing terminal
  • Buying onboard Heathrow Express
Will they be providing free tickets to people that wish to change terminal then? That surely negates the point of the gateline.

The Piccadilly lines also offers free travel between the terminals including interchange only at Hatton Cross, but you need an Oyster or contactless card.
 

plcd1

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Installation of ticket gates in progress at Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 station at present - the wooden blocks in place before the actual gates are installed.

Genuinely surprised to see ticket gates being installed. I expected validators to be provided at the airport end of things. Surprised to see the potential loss of free transit within the airport on HAL contracted services.
 

JaJaWa

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Taunton

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Wonder how they will manage connections at Heathrow, such as Southall to Hounslow West. It's all TfL operated and all within London.
 

Dstock7080

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https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...ounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line

The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, and TfL have today announced that Elizabeth line pay as you go fares within Zones 1-6 will be the same as the fares on existing TfL services, ensuring affordable travel for millions of Londoners when the railway opens through central London in December this year.

All customer service and travel information on the line will be fully integrated with TfL's other services, with daily fare capping for Oyster and contactless applying.

Standard zonal fares will continue to apply for journeys between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington, with special single fares applying for journeys to and from Heathrow Airport.
 
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