Oyster anomoly

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RJ

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Sounds like a possible continuation entry. Not inconceivable but certainly tantamount to intent to avoid paying the correct fare if repeatedly done deliberately.

As we saw from The Tube, any suspicious activity on Oyster is automatically reported and CCTV means that it's irrelevant whether or not the card is registered! In that situation, some smart-arse travelling from Homerton to Ladbroke Grove via KX with a Zones 2-3 Travelcard was touching in and out at Homerton, then travelling before touching out at Ladbroke Grove, thus evading the PAYG charge for Zone 1. Though they didn't actually say that on the show (I figured it out from a mere reference to the illegitimate sharing of a "season ticket" in the dialogue) so most people assumed he was simply using PAYG :p

I'm aware of certain fiddles in the Oyster system but I'm not stupid enough to engage in any practice that is in any way legally dubious when it comes to travelling on the railways.
 
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yorkie

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The different prices are for whether or not Zone 1 is included. So, somehow, it thinks they've not gone through Zone 1.
 

RJ

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The different prices are for whether or not Zone 1 is included. So, somehow, it thinks they've not gone through Zone 1.
I'm thinking it could be that, or another possibility being one fare is purely TfL, or purely NR and the other is a more expensive through fare. I don't think enough information has been provided.
 

MikeWh

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I'm thinking it could be that, or another possibility being one fare is purely TfL, or purely NR and the other is a more expensive through fare. I don't think enough information has been provided.
I can't see £4.40 or £2.60 in either NR fare table. It's got to be weird behaviour triggered by the same station exit. I've tried to send the poster to my site to see if he'll let me know the stations.
 

RJ

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I can't see £4.40 or £2.60 in either NR fare table. It's got to be weird behaviour triggered by the same station exit. I've tried to send the poster to my site to see if he'll let me know the stations.
A Zone 1-3 peak through fare is £4.40. The only other fare for that price is a peak TfL Zone 1-5 journey. And the only fare for £2.60 matching at least one of those zones is a Zone 2 - 5 peak fare. I'll discount the possibility of this person using Zones 7-9 or having a railcard.

Hmmm. What's interesting (and not surprising) is the following;

LO - TfL station -> TfL Only fare
LO - NR station -> NR Only fare

Obviously with some exceptions for stations PAYG was accepted at pre January 2010. It doesn't appear to be possible to trigger a through fare using LO (I tried Dalston Junction to Charlton.)

The only certainty I can draw from this is that the origin or destination is a station in Zone 5 where a TfL only fare is charged. There aren't very many, especially if the person's account is assumed to be clearly written, that both tube and Overground serve. That would limit one of the stations to being Harrow and Wealdstone.

If that's correct then the only station on the other end I can think of which matches with the fares and distance quoted is Shepherd's Bush. Shepherd's Bush LU to Harrow can't really be done without changing somewhere in Zone 1. Shepherd's Bush to Harrow via Willesden Junction would be a Zone 2-5 fare.

If this is correct then the person has triggered an OSI at their origin, which is something I've looked at in my Oyster case study as there is a money saving potential but wouldn't do in practice as it's intentional fare evasion through exploiting a weakness in the programming.

We shall see.
 
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MikeWh

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Hmmm. I think you could be right there. I'd forgotten that Shepherd's Bush is two stations linked by an OSI. This seems to be the reverse behaviour to an overcharge I managed to get when trying to break an OSI with a SSE at Lewisham NR.
 

Clip

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So there is more to it then originally thought. Interesting. Though there isnt enough info on the thread its good to see you guys delving into it a lot deeper as the whole thing is amazes me does Oyster PAYG.
 

clagmonster

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As we saw from The Tube, any suspicious activity on Oyster is automatically reported and CCTV means that it's irrelevant whether or not the card is registered! In that situation, some smart-arse travelling from Homerton to Ladbroke Grove via KX with a Zones 2-3 Travelcard was touching in and out at Homerton, then travelling before touching out at Ladbroke Grove, thus evading the PAYG charge for Zone 1. Though they didn't actually say that on the show (I figured it out from a mere reference to the illegitimate sharing of a "season ticket" in the dialogue) so most people assumed he was simply using PAYG :p
I came to the same conclusion as you, though they showed the touching in and out at Ladbroke Grove, I presume he did the same thing in both directions (or only evaded the Zone 1 'excess' in one direction, which would seem unlikely). I suppose technically it was a PAYG fare that he evaded.
 

RJ

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I came to the same conclusion as you, though they showed the touching in and out at Ladbroke Grove, I presume he did the same thing in both directions (or only evaded the Zone 1 'excess' in one direction, which would seem unlikely). I suppose technically it was a PAYG fare that he evaded.
For it to work, you only have to do it at the starting station.

At ungated stations, simply not validating at the origin station is a method of evading the Zone 1 charge. Hopefully the programme dispelled the myth that the powers that be don't monitor irregular usage and things like incomplete journeys* :p

*Awaits jabber from paper BZ extension brigade :p
 

yorkie

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...Hopefully the programme dispelled the myth that the powers that be don't monitor irregular usage and things like incomplete journeys* :p

*Awaits jabber from paper BZ extension brigade :p
Perhaps if anyone is concerned about this, they could retain their BZ6 extensions so that if the 'powers that be' ever questioned them, they'd have the evidence to lay any concerns to rest.

Of course that may be inconvenient for some people (e.g. if their destination station has ticketr gates that retain tickets) and I don't think that people should be expected/obliged to do this!
 
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