Oyster at Dartford from 6/9/15

[Mojo]

In order to travel outside of your Zones on Oyster you need to:

1. have sufficient credit on your Oyster card to be charged for your journey
2. touch in at your origin
3. remain within the Oyster Pay As You Go Area
4. touch out at your destination

 

[island]

You would also need to avoid doubling-back on yourself, crossing through zone 1 if your Travelcard isn't valid there, and starting or ending your journey outside your valid zones.

I'm not sure what you may or may not have found on the TfL website but I absolutely guarantee you that you cannot get a zone 2 only Travelcard. There is a minimum purchase of two zones. It is probably showing you the price of a zone 2-3 Travelcard.

 

[PermitToTravel]

There's no scope for saving any money due to this, as as was said above if you want to leave any station outside your zones you must touch out there at which point you will have to pay the fare.
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You would also need to avoid doubling-back on yourself, crossing through zone 1 if your Travelcard isn't valid there, and starting or ending your journey outside your valid zones.

Is Z1 special?

 

[island]

I'm simplifying.

 

[ComUtoR]

I'm not sure what you may or may not have found on the TfL website but I absolutely guarantee you that you cannot get a zone 2 only Travelcard. There is a minimum purchase of two zones. It is probably showing you the price of a zone 2-3 Travelcard.

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/tube-dlr-lo-adult-fares.pdf

It lists all the fares and shows each zone as having their own specific fare.

 

[MikeWh]

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/tube-dlr-lo-adult-fares.pdf

It lists all the fares and shows each zone as having their own specific fare.

But the price of a zone 2 travelcard is the same as a zone 2-3. You can't buy a single zone travelcard. What they're saying is if you want to travel in just zone 2 then it will cost X, where X also allows travel in zone 3.

 

[34D]

It's worth reminding all Freedom Pass holders that they must remember to touch out and in at Dartford now, and that Kent elderly residents still don't benefit

 

[greatkingrat]

It's worth reminding all Freedom Pass holders that they must remember to touch out and in at Dartford now, and that Kent elderly residents still don't benefit

If you have a Freedom Pass it doesn't matter in the slightest if you touch in or out at Dartford.

 

[ComUtoR]

But the price of a zone 2 travelcard is the same as a zone 2-3. You can't buy a single zone travelcard. What they're saying is if you want to travel in just zone 2 then it will cost X, where X also allows travel in zone 3.

Cheers for highlighting that Mike. Seems odd to list both fares then not be able to actually get a single zone.

Sorry for being a pain further but last question (I think) If I have a paper ticket and an Oyster can I get on a service that overlaps ?

Eg. A paper ticket from point A - B and an Oyster from B - C but I take a service that goes from A - C without changing ?

 

[MikeWh]

You would also need to avoid doubling-back on yourself, crossing through zone 1 if your Travelcard isn't valid there, and starting or ending your journey outside your valid zones.

I'm not sure what you may or may not have found on the TfL website but I absolutely guarantee you that you cannot get a zone 2 only Travelcard. There is a minimum purchase of two zones. It is probably showing you the price of a zone 2-3 Travelcard.

I think you are badly over simplifying yourself. It is absolutely fine to double back between Norwood Junction and East Croydon, Neasdon and Wembley Park, Brentwood and Shenfield, Berrylands and Surbiton, and many many other places. You are charged for your actual journey from touch in to touch out as long as you don't exceed the allowed maximum time for that journey. If your actual journey is covered by your travelcard then you won't be charged.

If you had a zone 2-3 travelcard then I agree that to avoid being charged you would have to not travel across zone 1; the same is true of any zone lower than the ones your travelcard cover.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Cheers for highlighting that Mike. Seems odd to list both fares then not be able to actually get a single zone.

Sorry for being a pain further but last question (I think) If I have a paper ticket and an Oyster can I get on a service that overlaps ?

Eg. A paper ticket from point A - B and an Oyster from B - C but I take a service that goes from A - C without changing ?

With an Oyster season that's absolutely fine. There was a famous thread a couple of years ago where jonmorris0844 got incorrectly reported for doing that: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47857

If the train does not stop at point B then the paper ticket can not be a season

 

[MikeWh]

Cheers for highlighting that Mike. Seems odd to list both fares then not be able to actually get a single zone.

Welcome to TfL logic.

Sorry for being a pain further but last question (I think) If I have a paper ticket and an Oyster can I get on a service that overlaps ?

Eg. A paper ticket from point A - B and an Oyster from B - C but I take a service that goes from A - C without changing ?

Bearing in mind that an Oyster card is only a medium, if it contains a travelcard then you can combine with a paper ticket in accordance with condition 19. If you are using PAYG then you need to touch in/out where you switch from paper to Oyster and vice-versa.
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With an Oyster season that's absolutely fine. There was a famous thread a couple of years ago where jonmorris0844 got incorrectly reported for doing that: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47857

If the train does not stop at point B then the paper ticket can not be a season

Over simplification. jonmorris0844 had a paper Hatfield to zones 4-6 and zones 1-3 on Oyster.

 

[ComUtoR]

Welcome to TfL logic.

:/ More complicated than I thought but cheers to all for the basic lesson.

 

[MikeWh]

I'd try it if I had a way of getting home from Dartford at reasonable expense afterwards, which I don't.

Never one to shy away from a challenge, the last 96 back from Dartford to Crayford is 0044 or possibly later. I shall give it a go. Results when I return.

 

[PermitToTravel]

The timetable says it's at 0029!

 

[yorkie]

Over simplification.

Indeed; the problem is people sometimes read the simple answer to a situation and think it applies to their similar - but subtly different - situation.

You're absolutely right of course Oyster is just a medium, and as Roger Ford said nearly 10 years ago...

"What counts is the message, not the medium."

 

[MikeWh]

The timetable says it's at 0029!

So it is, not sure what I thought I saw there. Still, 23 minutes is plenty enough time to walk to the bus stop from the station.
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It's also only 30 minutes walk all the way home, so not the end of the world.
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Never one to shy away from a challenge, the last 96 back from Dartford to Crayford is 0044 or possibly later. I shall give it a go. Results when I return.

OK. Touched in using contactless at 0002 just as the train arrived. Got to Dartford, staff all over the place on the platform, but they do have to check the trains are empty before they go off to the sidings. Top of the stairs on platform 1/2 there is a revenue man standing in front of the lift, just watching. Down the stairs to the ticket hall I was relieved to see the gates open and no staff manning them. Stickers still on the readers but the light was orange, so touched the card. Red with two beeps and seek assistance. No, I didn't think to note the number, sadly, because I then spotted two more staff just outside the doors and decided that the best course of action was to walk confidently out of the station.

Got to the bus stop just as the 0013 bus was pulling up and decided to use a different card this time. While on the bus I checked the TfL site and saw I'd got an auto complete journey to Norwood Junction. Better than a maximum fare, but still more than I really wanted to pay. Walked past Crayford station on the way home and touched again with the original card at 0028. Journey history now shows Crayford to Crayford at no charge, which is better than expected so I won't be complaining. Was expecting a zone 6 single so I wonder if the system has changed or whether contactless doesn't charge while Oyster does.

Sadly someone else will probably be the first person to use Oyster/contactless at Dartford, but hey ho.

 

[Envy123]

Now passengers from Stone Crossing, Greenhithe and Swanscombe will complain that they don't have Oyster.

When will the Tfl Rail map be updated to include Dartford, I wonder?

 

[34D]

If you have a Freedom Pass it doesn't matter in the slightest if you touch in or out at Dartford.

With respect, it does.

Quoting from http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46508.aspx

"You must touch your pass flat on the yellow card reader at the gates at the beginning and end of your journey."

This previously wasn't possible at Dartford, but now is.

I wonder if the specific 'freedom pass map' will now be ditched? Dartford was about the only thing that made it different

 

[island]

With respect, it does.

Quoting from http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46508.aspx

"You must touch your pass flat on the yellow card reader at the gates at the beginning and end of your journey."

This previously wasn't possible at Dartford, but now is.

I wonder if the specific 'freedom pass map' will now be ditched? Dartford was about the only thing that made it different

Whilst the conditions require touching in and out, nothing comes of not doing so.

The specific map will still be required for the time being; as I understand it Swanley still accepts Freedom/Over 60 passes but not Oyster.

 

[34D]

Whilst the conditions require touching in and out, nothing comes of not doing so.

Except possibly arousing suspicions among RPI's that they travel to an unbarriered station outside the zones.

The specific map will still be required for the time being; as I understand it Swanley still accepts Freedom/Over 60 passes but not Oyster.

Ah good point

 

[PermitToTravel]

Except possibly arousing suspicions among RPI's that they travel to an unbarriered station outside the zones.

It's not really suspicious, given the number of unbarriered stations within the zones; particularly on that route.

 

[bicbasher]

Dartford hasn't been added to TfL's single fare finder yet.

 

[causton]

Whilst the conditions require touching in and out, nothing comes of not doing so.

The specific map will still be required for the time being; as I understand it Swanley still accepts Freedom/Over 60 passes but not Oyster.

Don't forget in the north east and north west the differing time restrictions (Greater Anglia/Southern/London Midland/London Overground/TfL Rail) and the "not before 09:30" for many other National Rail trains.

 

[MikeWh]

Dartford hasn't been added to TfL's single fare finder yet.

Which rather lays open the lie that it uses the same database as the live system. Oyster and contactless are both working fine at Dartford today. There may have been a problem earlier with some child cards because I overheard the gateline staff talking about how they'd had to take off the child lock.

 

[blakey1152]

I assume that as Dartford is now in zone 8 that we can happily use a 1-9 Zone One Day Travelcard from the station as often as we like on the day of validity.

And of course I also hope that journeys from Dartford would be included in the appropriate daily cap as well for Oyster.

 

[mattdickinson]

I assume that as Dartford is now in zone 8 that we can happily use a 1-9 Zone One Day Travelcard from the station as often as we like on the day of validity.

And of course I also hope that journeys from Dartford would be included in the appropriate daily cap as well for Oyster.

Both are the case. However if you buy a Dartford One Day Travelcard it will only be valid for one return journey to Z6. A zone 1-9 ODT would need an origin such as Amersham stated.

 

[Romilly]

Dartford now appears on the "London's Rail and Tube Services" map in Zone 8, but the way the map has been drawn also means that:

(1) a journey from St Mary Cray to Swanley now passes through not only Zone 6, but also Zones 7 and 8, and

(2) a journey from Knockholt to Sevenoaks now passes through not only Zone 6 but also Zone 7.

So far as I can see, a Zones 1-6 travelcard for 7 days or more can still be combined with a ticket from Boundary Zone 6 to Swanley/Sevenoaks.

But am I missing any adverse implications?

 

[greatkingrat]

I have heard that Swanley will also be accepting Oyster and moving into Zone 8 from 9th March.

 

[MikeWh]

I have heard that Swanley will also be accepting Oyster and moving into Zone 8 from 9th March.

Not a surprise. I've heard that readers have been installed already. In fact the surprise is that it didn't happen at the same time as Dartford.
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I have heard that Swanley will also be accepting Oyster and moving into Zone 8 from 9th March.

Well, absolutely no information on either TfL or Southeastern websites, but both customer service teams confirm that it is happening. Interestingly the TVM at Swanley has already been upgraded to sell the cheaper zone 1-8 period travelcards and zone 1-9 day travelcards. Wednesday is an odd day to start something too, but I guess it avoids the Monday morning crush.