Oyster card readers not working?

[Alex-JER/LGW]

Hi,

I have recently seen examples of Oyster Card readers not working when travelling from some SouthEastern stations, meaning that it is not possible to touch in as required. This isn't a daily occurrence, however SouthEastern don't seem to rush to fix them.

What advice would you offer if I come across this in the future? And of course I can imagine the fun and games if I was to encounter a sceptical RPI! I bet of course in such a scenario the emphasis is again on the passenger to do the leg-work and have to chase TFL for a refund when they are incorrectly charged when trying to exit a station after being unable to Touch In.

As you may have guessed I am not a fan of Oyster because when there are engineering works in place and travel is required by underground normally between Cannon Street & Victoria or Blackfriars instead of rail again SouthEastern do not seem to co-operate with TfL and again it is the inconvenienced passenger who has to chase for a refund!

I would be interested on your thoughts on these points....

Thanks

 

[MikeWh]

Hi,

I have recently seen examples of Oyster Card readers not working when travelling from some SouthEastern stations,meaning that it is not possible to Touch In as required.This isn't a daily occurrence,however SouthEastern don't seem to rush to fix them.

Can you elaborate on which stations/locations? Also, what sort of Oyster card are you trying to use - adult or child?

What advice would you offer if I come across this in the future?And of course I can imagine the fun and games if I was to encounter a sceptical RPI!I bet of course in such a scenario the emphasis is again on the passenger to do the leg-work and have to chase TFL for a refund when they are incorrectly charged when trying to exit a station after being unable to Touch In.

I will be very happy to help fight a penalty from an RPI in this scenario.

As you may have guessed I am not a fan of Oyster because when there are engineering works in place and travel is required by underground normally between Cannon Street & Victoria or Blackfriars instead of rail again SouthEastern do not seem to co-operate with TFL and again it is the inconvenienced passenger who has to chase for a refund!

I would be interested on your thoughts on these points....Thanks

It's well known that Southeastern are as anti-Oyster as it is possible to be. I'm currently waiting for the outcome of a FOI request to TfL after my son found it impossible to touch in or out at their London terminals where the gates had been set to reject child tickets. I must say that TfL are usually very good when it comes to refunding overcharges. The helpline is no longer a premium number so it is often available under free minutes. There's not much can be done about the engineering work issue as it does rely on communication between the TOCs and TfL.

 

[Alex-JER/LGW]

Mike,

Thank you for the prompt reply.

It was a couple of weeks ago from Erith, the Oyster readers weren't working so there was no option to Touch In. There was no check at the other SE station where I alighted so I didn't bother touching to then receive the maximum fare through no fault of my own which I would have had to chase a refund for! (Again my time and effort because SET can't be bothered!)

To answer the question it was an adult PAYG card that I was using.

On a separate note I have detected that SouthEastern takes an age to fix any ticket machine or Permit to Travel machine faults. Up to 2 or 3 weeks seems to be normal and acceptable to them which I think is poor service! There are a couple listed on their website currently that have been broken for more than a week!

 

[hassaanhc]

If TfL are aware of reader faults then they post it on Twitter, and say that auto refunds will be given in 7 days. However I don't have any personal experience of this.

 

[yorkie]

Auto-refunds will work for a regular commute, but not random one-off journeys.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Auto-refunds will work for a regular commute, but not random one-off journeys.

I received a confessional email from oyster this week telling me that due to a technical problem I was owed £1.50

However to get my money back I had to touch in at Bank on a journey.

What happens if I do that for a long time and in the mean time I start a journey elsewhere?

Or I just want my money back without starting a journey from Bank or anywhere ?

 

[bb21]

Whenever you touch on the gates at Bank you will be credited. It will expire after 7 days. If you don't collect it by then you can ring the helpline to arrange alternative payment methods.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Whenever you touch on the gates at Bank you will be credited. It will expire after 7 days. If you don't collect it by then you can ring the helpline to arrange alternative payment methods.

Rubbish process.

 

[bb21]

Unfortunately the gates are not real-time so it's a sort of compromise arrangement.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Unfortunately the gates are not real-time so it's a sort of compromise arrangement.

Obviously (I hope) not a dig at you! How do they know I would ever be at Bank again? If they can subsequently refund my account why can't they just do it remotely...

 

[MikeWh]

Obviously (I hope) not a dig at you! How do they know I would ever be at Bank again? If they can subsequently refund my account why can't they just do it remotely...

If you have an online account you can tell the system where to send automatic refunds to in future. Most (semi-)regular users are happy to get the refund added to their card balance. Once at the station it can only be collected, or returned to the central system after 8 days. Only then can a new station or alternative method of repayment be selected. It's all tied in with ensuring that the refund (or top up) only gets applied once.

 

[Mojo]

Whenever you touch on the gates at Bank you will be credited. It will expire after 7 days. If you don't collect it by then you can ring the helpline to arrange alternative payment methods.

Rubbish process.

Obviously (I hope) not a dig at you! How do they know I would ever be at Bank again? If they can subsequently refund my account why can't they just do it remotely...

Because for the majority of people they will return to that location to collect it. They have to select somewhere! If it's not picked up then you can use the drop down on the Oyster Online to select another location to pick up from.

 

[yorkie]

You can set the default location to your most used station. I've set mine to King's Cross St Pancras which is the most convenient for me. You may want to select Cheshunt?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Because for the majority of people they will return to that location to collect it. They have to select somewhere! If it's not picked up then you can use the drop down on the Oyster Online to select another location to pick up from.

Will they? I must be unique for a change.

I've no idea when I will start a journey from Bank again. Certainly not within a week. Why such a short period?

Why no auto credit?

 

[34D]

the Oyster readers weren't working so there was no option to Touch In. There was no check at the other SE station where I alighted so I didn't bother touching to then receive the maximum fare through no fault of my own which I would have had to chase a refund for!

I think for the future, it would be remiss of us to let this post pass without comment. My own _personal_ view is:

-Consider speaking to staff or using a help point

-If not possible, then touch out (which the stand-alone readers would interpret as a touch-in) then call the helpline the next day.

Other thoughts?

 

[Class377]

Is there a particular reason the service doesn't allow money to just be put on without touching in our out?

Does technology exist to allow smartcards in the future to act this way (perhaps as a debit account)? Irregular travellers to London could easily lose out on refunds this way, I imagine.

 

[PermitToTravel]

The balance of your Oyster card is stored on your card (TfL have a record on their computer, but it's not real time). This is necessary because gatelines, buses, standalone validators, handheld readers, etc have to authorise/deny travel immediately without consulting TfL's computer over the internet

To change anything on your card, it needs to be seen by a gateline/standalone validator as the card needs to be present for the change to be made - it can't be done remotely.


If getting to a station poses a problem you can call TfL and ask them to send the money to your bank account

 

[Mojo]

I've no idea when I will start a journey from Bank again. Certainly not within a week. Why such a short period?

Surely if anything, as you visit Bank so rarely, you would want it to expire in such a short period, so you can nominate a more convenient station for you to collect it from sooner?

 

[lightbulb]

If you have an online account you can tell the system where to send automatic refunds to in future. Most (semi-)regular users are happy to get the refund added to their card balance. Once at the station it can only be collected, or returned to the central system after 8 days. Only then can a new station or alternative method of repayment be selected. It's all tied in with ensuring that the refund (or top up) only gets applied once.

I've just registered my Oyster pay-as-you-go, and have looked online, but can't find the facility you describe to nominate a station for an automatic refund. Could you please describe the steps I need to take?

 

[MikeWh]

I've no idea when I will start a journey from Bank again. Certainly not within a week. Why such a short period?

I'm fairly sure that Bank will have been related to the journey which prompted the refund. It should be noted that you only have to visit the station in the process of making a journey to get the credit. This can be entry, exit, or part of an interchange.

Is there a particular reason the service doesn't allow money to just be put on without touching in our out?

It does - when you are there in person. Top up at any ticket stop, ticket office or vending machine is instantaneous.

Does technology exist to allow smartcards in the future to act this way (perhaps as a debit account)? Irregular travellers to London could easily lose out on refunds this way, I imagine.

Yes, TfL are coming to the end of a pilot testing the use of contactless payment cards on rail services. It works rather well, IMO. When it is rolled out later this year the system will provide daily capping (including buses which currently don't cap), and also Monday to Sunday weekly capping.

I've just registered my Oyster pay-as-you-go, and have looked online, but can't find the facility you describe to nominate a station for an automatic refund. Could you please describe the steps I need to take?

Sure. Once logged in you have three tabs. The middle one is "My Oyster Details". When you select that there are five links, the last of which is "Preferences". Here you can subscribe to weekly or monthly journey history emails and select a prefered station.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Surely if anything, as you visit Bank so rarely, you would want it to expire in such a short period, so you can nominate a more convenient station for you to collect it from sooner?

I'd expect to be able to over rule the Bank requirement via my on-line account before any time limit expires. Therefore negating the need for a time limit at all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You can set the default location to your most used station. I've set mine to King's Cross St Pancras which is the most convenient for me. You may want to select Cheshunt?

I don't use Cheshunt with Oyster.

I feel a little awkward but really I can't be that unusual in my travel patterns.

 

[lightbulb]

Sure. Once logged in you have three tabs. The middle one is "My Oyster Details". When you select that there are five links, the last of which is "Preferences". Here you can subscribe to weekly or monthly journey history emails and select a prefered station.

Thanks.

Yes, TfL are coming to the end of a pilot testing the use of contactless payment cards on rail services. It works rather well, IMO. When it is rolled out later this year the system will provide daily capping (including buses which currently don't cap), and also Monday to Sunday weekly capping.

I'm signed up to the pilot, but have decided to use Oyster instead, as my railcard gives 34% off. Are they planning to allow railcards to be linked when it's rolled out later this year?

 

[MikeWh]

I'd expect to be able to over rule the Bank requirement via my on-line account before any time limit expires. Therefore negating the need for a time limit at all.

I think there's some confusion here. As the refund has been sent to Bank it will stay there for eight days. The online account setting is for future refunds. The central server can't recall a refund, it has to wait for the receiving station to report collection or failure.

Are they planning to allow railcards to be linked when it's rolled out later this year?

I don't think so.

 

[Be3G]

I share some of the frustration in this thread about Oyster refunds, because the only regular journeys I make are by bus, thanks to the high cost and low frequency of local rail services. So the auto-refund system is nigh on useless for me. Personally, I don't see why TfL never allowed people to nominate a bank account for automatic refunds; at least CPCs will hopefully solve that particular problem.

 

[Panda]

Will they? I must be unique for a change.

I've no idea when I will start a journey from Bank again. Certainly not within a week. Why such a short period?

Why no auto credit?

It's not really such a short period, it's a week. It's so that the Oyster readers at the stations don't have to hold your refund for an indeterminate amount of time.

They cannot auto credit you, because funds are held on the Oyster card. If TfL want to give you any money or add season tickets onto the Oyster card, they need to physically add it to the card (hence after buying a ticket or topping up from a machine, you have to touch the card to apply the ticket or credit).

This is why there are long-term plans from a shift from a decentralised Oyster system to a more centralised back office system (phase 4 of the Future Ticketing Programme).

 

[Class377]

It does - when you are there in person. Top up at any ticket stop, ticket office or vending machine is instantaneous.

I would say it seems like a faff, but then again when the card NEEDS to be tapped in (unlike, say, a paper TC) it makes sense.

I was more considering the (probably quite rare occurrence) that certainly I face when using my Oyster - if I was to travel in from the West Country that lands me into Paddington, and then I never know what set of barriers to use. It probably is quite straightforward but this is the only occasion when I become a technophobe

I certainly prefer the system that you quote below:

Yes, TfL are coming to the end of a pilot testing the use of contactless payment cards on rail services. It works rather well, IMO. When it is rolled out later this year the system will provide daily capping (including buses which currently don't cap), and also Monday to Sunday weekly capping.

This definitely sounds much better - would there ever be a desire to introduce this same technology to be a non-payment card system, purely dedicated to railway ticketing?

 

[infobleep]

When will they be able to sort out the problems with having a gold card or other discount card applied to Oyster card? Currently the only way to tell of refund issues is to check your journey history and ring up. I prefer the idea of doing an auto-refund but may be that doesn't offer a bank refund. In which case I wouldn't use it as I don't pass through any underground stations regularly and if I went especially to collect, I'd be spending money just to collect.

I do like Oyster system overall although.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[MikeWh]

When will they be able to sort out the problems with having a gold card or other discount card applied to Oyster card? Currently the only way to tell of refund issues is to check your journey history and ring up. I prefer the idea of doing an auto-refund but may be that doesn't offer a bank refund. In which case I wouldn't use it as I don't pass through any underground stations regularly and if I went especially to collect, I'd be spending money just to collect.

I do like Oyster system overall although.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. The discount can be added to an Oyster card on presentation of the card and railcard/gold card at an Underground ticket office. When these close I beileve that the staff then stationed in the ticket halls will be able to activate special menus on the ticket machines so it can be done with you watching. This should make it harder to not do it right.

Journey refunds can be picked up at any station: tube, dlr, national rail and even tramstops. You just have to be making a journey using your card at the time.

 

[button_boxer]

Journey refunds can be picked up at any station: tube, dlr, national rail and even tramstops. You just have to be making a journey using your card at the time.

Which can be a pain if you mainly use your Oyster card on buses. How difficult would it be to tie in the ticket machines to this system as well as the journey validators? I.e. if I have a refund due I can send it to a convenient station (maybe where I change buses, or one I walk past between the bus stop and work) and then nip in and collect the refund by touching on a ticket machine without the need to start or end a journey there.

That wouldn't involve any long distance communication, it would just require the ticket machines at a station to have access to the same database as that station's gateline validators.

 

[infobleep]

As far as I am aware, refund can only be picked up at Underground stations and not National Rail stations but I stand to be corrected.

As for adding a discount, I think that can also only be done at an underground station or overground station. I don't think South West Trains can do it.

At two stations they could but their suppler decided to remove the function. Great.

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