oyster cards in Euston ?

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Hadders

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Yes, the Sunday start for weekly capping is very inflexible. Also, if you use contactless ‘too much’, you have to use your PIN every so often. No problem in Tesco, but, if it happens at an underground station, you get a declined transaction, no help from the staff, and no weekly cap. So, I use Oyster for all journeys.
You won't get asked for a PIN validation when using contactless for transport as there's a separate 'transit mode' than contactless cards use
 
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MikeWh

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Yes, the Sunday start for weekly capping is very inflexible. Also, if you use contactless ‘too much’, you have to use your PIN every so often. No problem in Tesco, but, if it happens at an underground station, you get a declined transaction, no help from the staff, and no weekly cap. So, I use Oyster for all journeys.
Firstly the weekly cap ends on a Sunday.

More importantly, use of contactless on transport in London is subject to a different model called the transit model. This will never ask you to enter a PIN, even if the card has reached the point where you would need one. It won't work on a brand new card until you've entered the PIN elsewhere, but otherwise you will be fine.

You could still encounter difficulties if your card gets declined, but this will only happen if you've run out of funds and/or TfL have been refused payment of a daily charge.
 

bhb

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Ok, so I got my facts wrong about the capping week starting, apologies for that. And, for whatever reason, my, perfectly valid card, with adequate funds in my account, was declined at a London Underground station. There was no help to be had from the station staff, and for that reason, I use oyster.
 

paddington

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Ok, so I got my facts wrong about the capping week starting, apologies for that. And, for whatever reason, my, perfectly valid card, with adequate funds in my account, was declined at a London Underground station. There was no help to be had from the station staff, and for that reason, I use oyster.
You probably moved it too quickly or something like that. If you had tried it again it might have worked. This happened to me last week. I had to try my card at 3 different gates (exiting a station) before it would work, I knew it was fine because transactions are updated live on a phone app, but the first two gates rejected it. Then all three touches appeared on the app later, but TfL's system seems to be smart enough to correct this.
 

MikeWh

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And, for whatever reason, my, perfectly valid card, with adequate funds in my account, was declined at a London Underground station. There was no help to be had from the station staff, and for that reason, I use oyster.
I can understand that. I also had a problem with a contactless card in the early days. Fortunately there was a member of staff around who suggested not putting the card flat on the reader. I now touch the card with the tip of my index finger just under one edge so only the opposite edge touches the reader, and I've not had a problem since.
 

jfollows

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The BBC today (11 November 2019) (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50304437) posts that TFl holds >£399 million (to all intents, £400 million) of customers' cash, of which just over half (£202.8 million) is accounted for by the £5 deposit and the remaining amount (£196 million) of unused pay-as-you-go balances. The average unused balance is £3.46, hence probably why most people don't claim their refund. However 784 cards have not been used for more than a year with a balance of £90, which is apparently the maximum balance that can be held on an Oyster card.
 

gray1404

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Is it true that persons using Contactless card cannot be liable for PF or reported for prosecution if they make a mistake, whereas Oyster card users can be if they make a mistake?

If so, it seems most unfair on Oyster card users who have to use Oyster to get their railcard discount.

Also, on National Rail services you are allowed to forget your railcard once per year (or is it twice per year?) and produce it later. Does the same allowance apply for a forgotten railcard using Oyster on London Underground?
 

ashkeba

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Same here, I really don't want to be waving my wallet around to get out one of my several contactless cards somewhere like the Camden Town gateline. The Oyster card sits in a holder in an accessible outside pocket, the wallet with may credit and debit cards in a buttoned up inside pocket.
If you don't have one contactless card in its own holder, maybe in a glove back, don't you just end up waving your wallet around to get out one of your cards somewhere like a Camden Town coffee stand or newsagents?
 

JBuchananGB

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One advantage of an Oyster - providing you pay in cash and don't register it - is that you don't have your movements tracked.
On a recent channel 5 TV program featuring fare enforcement on TfL, an unregistered Oyster holding a Zone 1-2 travelcard was identified as having made many journeys involving a bus in Zone 3. They had no CCTV, but the user was a creature of habit and passed through gate 23 at Holborn regularly. The RPIs set themselves up to check all cards coming through that gate at the expected time and successfully intercepted their target.

I am currently the holder of two Oyster cards, each with very low credit balance (£1.65 & £2.30). One has a valid railcard associated with it, and the other has an expired railcard. I have no current plans to visit London.
 

swt_passenger

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Is it true that persons using Contactless card cannot be liable for PF or reported for prosecution if they make a mistake, whereas Oyster card users can be if they make a mistake?
If by “make a mistake” you mean if you fail to touch in, then yes. A mid journey check by a revenue team when failed to touch in with PAYG Oyster will normally result in a penalty fare. The same mid-journey check with a contactless card will only determine if the card is valid for travel, (ie not hotlisted), if it is not touched in at that time then a maximum cash fare will be charged, but this is done later in back office processing. Presumably if the card IS on the hotlist at the time it’s checked, then you’ll get a penalty fare.
 

gordonthemoron

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I was thinking of stopping using Oyster, but I am entitled to a Senior Railcard next year so it's worth keeping it for that. Plus I visit London fairly regularly.

On the downside, I have Auto Topup and TfL have just increased the threshold from £10 to £20
 

MarlowDonkey

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I was thinking of stopping using Oyster, but I am entitled to a Senior Railcard next year so it's worth keeping it for that. Plus I visit London fairly regularly.
There's not much in it, but I concluded that if you are likely to travel in the afternoon peak, then an off peak travelcard from outside zones 1-6 with Senior discount was slightly better value, depending as well on how many Zone 1-6 trips you were making. Point being that the Travelcard doesn't make a surcharge for peak afternoon and evening TfL travel, whilst the Oyster does.
 

gray1404

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Likewise if using National Rail am I right in saying one can receive a PF if they are checked during their journey and they don't have enough credit for the journey being taken, where as there would be no way of telling (thus avoiding a PF) if using a contact less card?
 

gordonthemoron

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There's not much in it, but I concluded that if you are likely to travel in the afternoon peak, then an off peak travelcard from outside zones 1-6 with Senior discount was slightly better value, depending as well on how many Zone 1-6 trips you were making. Point being that the Travelcard doesn't make a surcharge for peak afternoon and evening TfL travel, whilst the Oyster does.
Yes, agreed, which is why I use an off peak travelcard when on a day trip, but I often stay overnight. Plus you can get the railcard discount with a Two Together, which I use at the moment, and will be using on Saturday. However, I often stay overnight
 

MikeWh

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There's not much in it, but I concluded that if you are likely to travel in the afternoon peak, then an off peak travelcard from outside zones 1-6 with Senior discount was slightly better value, depending as well on how many Zone 1-6 trips you were making. Point being that the Travelcard doesn't make a surcharge for peak afternoon and evening TfL travel, whilst the Oyster does.
A bit of confusion here. A railcard discounted Oyster applies discounted caps after 0930 (inc between 1600-1900). These caps are cheaper than any relevant paper travelcard. It is true that if you make one short return journey in the afternoon peak then a discounted paper ticket might sometimes be cheaper because full peak fares are charged on the Oyster, but if you're talking caps or travelcards the Oyster is better.
 

Kite159

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The BBC today (11 November 2019) (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50304437) posts that TFl holds >£399 million (to all intents, £400 million) of customers' cash, of which just over half (£202.8 million) is accounted for by the £5 deposit and the remaining amount (£196 million) of unused pay-as-you-go balances. The average unused balance is £3.46, hence probably why most people don't claim their refund. However 784 cards have not been used for more than a year with a balance of £90, which is apparently the maximum balance that can be held on an Oyster card.
How many of those cards have been lost down the back of a sofa, or thrown away by mistake. TfL can do an advertising campaign for holders of old cards to come forward to claim their money back, but what else can they do for all those unregistered dormant cards which might have been lost or been taken abroad by tourists as a keepsake of their holiday.
 

Skimpot flyer

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I was thinking of stopping using Oyster, but I am entitled to a Senior Railcard next year so it's worth keeping it for that. Plus I visit London fairly regularly.

On the downside, I have Auto Topup and TfL have just increased the threshold from £10 to £20
This will only affect you once. It doesn’t mean the _minimum_ top-up is increasing to £20 !
If an account is set to top-up with £10 when the balance falls below £10, presumably they’ll take 2x£10 this one time, and only £10 each time the balance goes below £20 thereafter
 

MikeWh

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Correct, they should have changed the top up amount to £10
Whilst I'd support a £10 topup for kids, the number of additional bank transactions a £10 topup for adults would create would increase the cost of the system. If you live outside zone 3 it's quite easy to spend £10 in a day.
 

LeylandLen

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I am a senior person , and an occasional visitor to London using off peak fares ' ; yes I get a discount on Oyster which I cant get on contact less cards.

I have seen pink readers on my travels; what are they used for ?

As there are so many Oyster cards that are unused with an average balance of app £3.60 ,surely one or more charities could benefit from large amount of credit if users were asked to send them to a freepost address,with usual safeguards and benefit from them , maybe with support of Tfl ??
 

MikeWh

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I have seen pink readers on my travels; what are they used for ?
Almost always to indicate that you've avoided zone 1 and can be charged a cheaper fare.
As there are so many Oyster cards that are unused with an average balance of app £3.60 ,surely one or more charities could benefit from large amount of credit if users were asked to send them to a freepost address,with usual safeguards and benefit from them , maybe with support of Tfl ??
I believe there are collection bins at some large Underground stations that might just do that, although I'm not 100% sure.
I think the Disabled railcard is the exception that allows discounts on Oyster before 9.30 and in the evening peak.
Yes, disabled railcards give a discount on all Oyster fares and caps, in line with the terms of the railcard itself.
 

Kite159

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I believe there are collection bins at some large Underground stations that might just do that, although I'm not 100% sure.
There is a collection bin at Liverpool Street where you can donate your oyster if you are finished with it. I.e. a tourist who will then catch a train to Stansted or Southend airport.
 

MarlowDonkey

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It is true that if you make one short return journey in the afternoon peak then a discounted paper ticket might sometimes be cheaper because full peak fares are charged on the Oyster, but if you're talking caps or travelcards the Oyster is better.
My question is whether it is better with a Senior Railcard to buy an Off peak London Terminals Day Return and use Oyster/Contactless from when you leave/join the National Rail service from/to outside Zone 6 or buy an Off peak 1-6 Travelcard from your outside London starting station. It was when I spotted that Oyster was making a higher charge for a journey in the afternoon/evening peak that I concluded that the Travelcard approach worked better.

Essentially it comes down to whether the difference in cost between "Travelcard" and "London Terminals" exceeds the costs of using Oyster/Contactless or otherwise.
 

spinba11

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I think the Disabled railcard is the exception that allows discounts on Oyster before 9.30 and in the evening peak.
Definitely in the evening peak as me and my dad made a journey (he has a senior card) and mine was cheaper, not sure about before 9:30.
 

DaveB10780

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Whilst I'd support a £10 topup for kids, the number of additional bank transactions a £10 topup for adults would create would increase the cost of the system. If you live outside zone 3 it's quite easy to spend £10 in a day.
Yes but they will increase their cash in hand balance by £10 for every Oyster user on auto top up. I wonder how much of a cash float that is?
 

MikeWh

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Yes but they will increase their cash in hand balance by £10 for every Oyster user on auto top up. I wonder how much of a cash float that is?
You are conflating two issues. Yes increasing the threshold will increase the 'float', but the threshold increase is needed for other reasons. Offering a £10 regular top up option would increase transaction fees with the possibility that in some cases people would trigger two top ups in one day.
 
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