Oyster Charging Question

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lewisf

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Checking out my journey history I noticed that the system charges more for a journey one way than the other. On my Oyster card I have a zones 3-6 travelcard and I commute from Surbiton to Wimbledon. However about once a month I take a tube from Wimbledon to South Kensington after work, and then return from South Kensington to Surbiton in one journey.



Now, from Wimbledon to South Ken I get charged £2 as I only need to pay for zones 1 & 2 single, but my return journey gets charged at £3.10 as my journey uses both Tube and NR. However, as the NR portion is already covered by my travelcard surely I should only be paying another £2 single fare.

Any ideas what's happening and is there any way to only pay a zones 1-2 single fare on my return journey?
 

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yorkie

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Checking out my journey history I noticed that the system charges more for a journey one way than the other.
Almost; it's more for a journey on NR (red routes) + LU than LU only.
On my Oyster card I have a zones 3-6 travelcard and I commute from Surbiton to Wimbledon. However about once a month I take a tube from Wimbledon to South Kensington after work, and then return from South Kensington to Surbiton in one journey.



Now, from Wimbledon to South Ken I get charged £2 as I only need to pay for zones 1 & 2 single, but my return journey gets charged at £3.10 as my journey uses both Tube and NR.
OK.
However, as the NR portion is already covered by my travelcard surely I should only be paying another £2 single fare.
I agree that is what it should, in an ideal world, charge. However that's not how it works unfortunately.
Any ideas what's happening and is there any way to only pay a zones 1-2 single fare on my return journey?
Yes :) see MikeWh's Oyster and National Rail site ;)

MikeWh said:
Things to watch out for

Oyster will charge you based on the whole journey you make, not just on the portion outside of your zones. So, if you have a zone 1-2 travelcard and start at Stratford (z3) using the Jubilee line to Waterloo, then National Rail to Wandsworth Town in zone 2 it will charge you for zone 3 in a mixed NR/TfL journey, even if your zone 3 travel was only on TfL. Most of the time this will only make a few pence difference, but it can be more. If your journey started in the evening peak then the first stage (Stratford – Waterloo) is charged off-peak as it finishes in zone 1. But when you then continue your journey and touch out at Wandsworth Town it changes to a peak mixed NR/TfL zone 3 journey. Armed with this knowledge there are two ways to get round it. First you can wait around at Waterloo until 40 minutes after your touch out from the Underground. This will mean that part two is a new journey fully covered by your travelcard. Alternatively you can touch onto a bus and then get off again. Bus travel is free with any travelcard, but touching on a bus will break the journey in two.
 

MikeWh

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Yes, the system treats the whole journey as one and takes off the zones covered by the travelcard. Assuming you use the tube to get back to Wimbledon then the way round it is to touch out and in again on the gateline at Wimbledon. You must use the gates though, because the platform validators are set to continuation exit so won't let you start a new journey.
 

Brucey

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MikeWh's wesite said:
Alternatively you can touch onto a bus and then get off again. Bus travel is free with any travelcard, but touching on a bus will break the journey in two.
Is it possible for a LU ticket office to break an OSI on request instead of boarding a bus?

I know using a TVM certainly doesn't break the journey.
 

goldsounds

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Checking out my journey history I noticed that the system charges more for a journey one way than the other. On my Oyster card I have a zones 3-6 travelcard and I commute from Surbiton to Wimbledon. However about once a month I take a tube from Wimbledon to South Kensington after work, and then return from South Kensington to Surbiton in one journey.



Now, from Wimbledon to South Ken I get charged £2 as I only need to pay for zones 1 & 2 single, but my return journey gets charged at £3.10 as my journey uses both Tube and NR. However, as the NR portion is already covered by my travelcard surely I should only be paying another £2 single fare.

Any ideas what's happening and is there any way to only pay a zones 1-2 single fare on my return journey?
From the sounds of it as the OSI at Wimbledon is within 15 mins the extension fare is NR+LU. If the interchange is more than 15 mins then the system will treat it as a separate journey.

My best advice is use a separate Oyster card for the extension journey to avoid the combined fare of NR+LU.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is it possible for a LU ticket office to break an OSI on request instead of boarding a bus?

I know using a TVM certainly doesn't break the journey.
Ticket office machines are unable to do that (unfortunately) :cry:
 

John @ home

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about once a month I take a tube from Wimbledon to South Kensington after work, and then return from South Kensington to Surbiton in one journey.
From the sounds of it as the OSI at Wimbledon is within 15 mins the extension fare is NR+LU. If the interchange is more than 15 mins then the system will treat it as a separate journey.
A passenger travelling "from South Kensington to Surbiton in one journey" would not normally leave the station when changing from LU to NR at Wimbledon, so OSI time limits would not normally be relevant.
 
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MikeWh

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A passenger tavelling "from South Kensington to Surbiton in one journey" would not normally leave the station when changing from LU to NR at Wimbledon, so OSI time limits would not normally be relevant.
I agree. Furthermore, Wimbledon is not part of any OSI. My advice above stands - just split the journey in two by touching out and in again at either gateline.
 

lewisf

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I agree. Furthermore, Wimbledon is not part of any OSI. My advice above stands - just split the journey in two by touching out and in again at either gateline.
I think that's what I'll do in future. As I have a travelcard, is there any need to touch in again as I'll be within my zones.
 

MikeWh

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I think that's what I'll do in future. As I have a travelcard, is there any need to touch in again as I'll be within my zones.
In theory there isn't, although not going through the gate after touching out does confuse the gates and/or let someone out for free. Also, you must use a gateline because the continuation exit on the validators means that your journey would just be extended when you touched out at the end. If you can guarantee not to need to touch out later then you can use the validators at Wimbledon.
 

lewisf

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In theory there isn't, although not going through the gate after touching out does confuse the gates and/or let someone out for free. Also, you must use a gateline because the continuation exit on the validators means that your journey would just be extended when you touched out at the end. If you can guarantee not to need to touch out later then you can use the validators at Wimbledon.
So, the best thing to do would be to touch out at one gateline, walk down the street to the other entrance by the shopping centre, and touch back in there? Looks less weird than touching out and not leaving, or touching out and immediately going back in...

I've done that journey combination 3 times since moving here in Dec and I could have saved myself £5.10 in that time. I'm going to the Science Museum Lates evenings when I do that journey in case you're wondering.

Actually, could this be seen as fare evasion, or am I just splitting tickets? I'm not going to be met at Wimbledon like that guy with the red headphones was on 'The Tube' am I?:lol:
 

Urban Gateline

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Regarding touching out at Wimbledon but not walking through the Gateline, this is perfectly acceptable.

Many people do this at my barriers to save time when they are either changing to a paper ticket or as in your situation needing to split a journey!

As annoying as it is to have the gate left open, we were taught the "magic kick" of the feet to trick the motion sensors on the barriers into thinking someone has gone through and therefore the gate shuts :)
 

34D

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I agree that is what it should, in an ideal world, charge. However that's not how it works unfortunately.
How have TfL responded to refund requests in this scenario?

It seems overcharging to me - plain and simple. Its like getting a big mac, then going to the counter to order chips separately but being charged for the chips and for half the burger on the grounds you'll be eating the chips with the vurger youy already purchased.
 

lewisf

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How have TfL responded to refund requests in this scenario?
Well, they wouldn't refund it even though the person on the phone agreed with me that it was a stupid scenario. She echoed the advise on here and to break the journey at Wimbledon by touching out on the gateline and coming back in.

Maybe I should contact Evening Standard or Metro, they like to cry outrage at this sort of thing :lol:
 

MikeWh

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Actually, could this be seen as fare evasion, or am I just splitting tickets? I'm not going to be met at Wimbledon like that guy with the red headphones was on 'The Tube' am I?:lol:
Absolutely not! The worst that can happen is that your card may be checked to see your history and/or that you have a valid travelcard. I guess it is a form of splitting tickets, or more acurately splitting your journey. In most cases on pure PAYG that would cost more.
 

lewisf

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Absolutely not! The worst that can happen is that your card may be checked to see your history and/or that you have a valid travelcard. I guess it is a form of splitting tickets, or more acurately splitting your journey. In most cases on pure PAYG that would cost more.
I know now, Oyster customer services told me to do the same thing by touching out and in again at Wimbledon!
 

34D

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Well, they wouldn't refund it even though the person on the phone agreed with me that it was a stupid scenario. She echoed the advise on here and to break the journey at Wimbledon by touching out on the gateline and coming back in.

Maybe I should contact Evening Standard or Metro, they like to cry outrage at this sort of thing :lol:
Letter to Boris saying oyster is overcharging you and will he fix it or do you have to go to the press?
 

yorkie

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This is a symptom of the ridiculous policy decision to charge a premium for journeys that involve NR red route(s) and non-NR route(s) (map). The premium is barely noticeable when Zone 1 is not involved, but including Zone 1 makes a huge difference.

Ultimately an anti-passenger policy where the journey is ludicrously considered to be "multi-modal" and therefore the passenger must be penalised, is the root cause. The same policies can happen in

The way Oyster works means that in this case, the customer is effectively charged the premium fare, and refunded a portion of that fare. By splitting it into 2 journeys, this means one of the journeys (in this case an NR red route only fare) is covered by the Travelcard, and the other journey is a TfL only fare that is chargeable.

I found out about this just under a year ago and was quite shocked when I discovered it. It's definitely newspaper-worthy material, but sadly they will mis-report it, fail to blame the right people, have a general rant, not credit the people who discovered it properly, and not address any of the root causes. People from this site have contacted the Press on numerous occasions only to be badly let down. Perhaps one day we'll get a good relationship with an honourable member of the Press who actually has some brains, but I'm not holding my breath...
 

MikeWh

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... The premium is barely noticeable when Zone 1 is not involved, but including Zone 1 makes a huge difference. ...
OK, it's pedantic, but the premium is invisible if the journey doesn't involve zone 1.

The 'blame' lies squarely at the feet of Southeastern, Southern, South West Trains, First Capital Connect and Greater Anglia (when they were NXEA). They all refused to sign up to Oyster (other than inter-available routes) unless they could keep the premium. Reluctantly TfL and the Mayor had to agree or lose the roll-out of Oyster.
 
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