Oyster fares z1 + Euston - Watford Junction

Status
Not open for further replies.

soil

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
1,951
Oyster peak fares are charged 06:30 - 09:30, and 16:00-19:00 Monday-Friday.
There is a peak price-cap, considered if you start travelling before 09:30, and an off-peak price cap, after 09:30.

There is an exception to the peak fares for Watford Junction.

"Peak fares do not apply to journeys between London Euston and Watford Junction (including journeys between intermediate stations) at the following times:
From London Euston: from 06:30 and before 09:30
Towards London Euston: from 16:00 and before 19:00"

Fares here:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx

What's the correct total charge for the following journeys

Victoria-Euston-Watford Junction starting 8am, on a weekday. This could cost £4.30 (Euston-WFJ off-peak) + £2 (VIC-EUS peak) = £6.30, or £5.50 (z1-WFJ off-peak, even though the VIC-EUS part was at peak), or even £8.20 (peak z1-wfj)

Watford Junction-Euston-Bank at 3pm (£5.50)
Bank-Victoria at 5pm (£2)
Victoria-Oxford Circus at 7pm (£2)
Oxford Circus - Victoria at 11pm (£2)
Then 1 Bus journey (£1.35)

The total is at least £18.35, but would this be capped?

(a) By the £15.20 off-peak z1-WFJ cap?
(b) By the £20.20 peak z1-WFJ cap? (So not capped in this case)
(c) By the cost of 2 * EUS-WFJ off-peak singles (£8.60) + z1 peak cap (£8.40) = £17

Any ideas?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
50,360
Location
Yorkshire
Victoria-Euston-Watford Junction starting 8am, on a weekday. This could cost £4.30 (Euston-WFJ off-peak) + £2 (VIC-EUS peak) = £6.30, or £5.50 (z1-WFJ off-peak, even though the VIC-EUS part was at peak), or even £8.20 (peak z1-wfj)
Providing the OSI applies, it will be treated as one journey, so it's £8.20 (M-F 0630-0930 & 1600-1900) or £5.50 at all other times including public holidays.

If the OSI at Euston is broken then it would be two separate journeys, and charged accordingly.

The total is at least £18.35, but would this be capped?

(a) By the £15.20 off-peak z1-WFJ cap?
No, because the first journey (Victoria - Watford Jn) was at peak time.

However, if you broke the OSI at Euston, then it is my understanding that this cap would apply, but of course with the peak fare from Victoria to Euston on top. This would be the cheapest way of doing all these journeys in my opinion. However I am not the expert on these matters, but I am sure MikeWh will be along at some point to advise if my understanding is correct or not.

(There are various ways the OSI can be broken, but in this particular case, the use of a different Oyster card for the first journey Victoria - Euston only would probably be the easiest method, if it was convenient to obtain another Oyster card. This is the Oyster equivalent of "splitting" tickets!)
 

MikeWh

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 Jun 2010
Messages
6,210
Location
Crayford
Peak fares and peak caps need to be thought of differently. Peak fares are the single journey fares that usually apply 0630-0930 and 1600-1900. You are correct that the Euston to Watford Junction line charges off-peak in the 'wrong' direction, but only if the whole journey is on that line. You will also be charged off-peak on any TfL set fare in the evening peak where the journey starts outside zone 1 and ends in zone 1.

The peak cap applies before 0930*. All journeys before 0930* count towards the peak cap even if they are charged at off-peak rates. After 0930* there are two tallies running: one for the peak cap and one for the off-peak cap. Whichever you hit first is the one that applies. (*unless the journey starts from one of the far away stations with an earlier start to the off-peak cap).
Victoria-Euston-Watford Junction at 8am (£8.20).
Watford Junction-Euston-Bank at 3pm (£5.50)
Bank-Victoria at 5pm (£2)
Victoria-Oxford Circus at 7pm (£2)
Oxford Circus - Victoria at 11pm (£2)
Then 1 Bus journey (£1.35)
As described, the peak cap for z1-watford junction would be reached first.

Using yorkie's suggestion would put £2.00 on the first card and £17.15 on the second card and neither would cap. I think the cheapest way to do it would be to split the Watford journeys at Willesden Junction. You'd then have:

Victoria - Willesden Junction £2.70
Willesden Junction - Watford Junction £1.50

Watford Junction - Willesden Junction £1.50
Willesden Junction - Bank £2.00
Bank - Victoria £2.00
Victoria - Oxford Circus £2.00
Oxford Circus - Victoria £2.00
Bus £1.35

With one card that would cost £15.05 but use a second card just between Willesden and Watford and you'd get it down to £11.40.

You would have to allight at Willesden Junction both ways and touch out and back in again for either scenario to work. The pink validator should NOT be used.
 

soil

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
1,951
Is it possible to split the Victoria-Euston-Watford Junction journey using a single Oyster Card? Effectively Victoria-Euston is costing £3.90 against the usual £2.
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,839
The only effective way to break an OSI is to touch on a bus reader, which if you are not going to hit the cap is going to cost money.

AFAIK a ticket office cannot break an OSI for you as they don't have the capability to do so.

Alternatively you can wait at Euston for the OSI to expire, which from Euston (LU) to Euston (NR) is 40 minutes according to Mike's website.
 

calc7

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
2,097
Could always get off at Warren Street and walk to Euston from there (about 6 mins). Warren Street has no OSIs (not even with Euston Sq).
 

soil

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
1,951
Thanks for the tips.

Another option I guess would be to buy a z1-2 peak travelcard.
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,839
Thanks for the tips.

Another option I guess would be to buy a z1-2 peak travelcard.
If I understand you correctly, you will still have to detrain at Willesden Junction in order to touch in on your PAYG Oyster, and vice versa on the way back.
 

soil

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
1,951
If I understand you correctly, you will still have to detrain at Willesden Junction in order to touch in on your PAYG Oyster, and vice versa on the way back.
No, the idea would be z1-2 peak travelcard for £8.40 then 2 * off-peak Oyster Euston - Watford Junction @£4.30 = £17

Not the cheapest, but cheaper than hitting the peak z1-4 cap.
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,839
No, the idea would be z1-2 peak travelcard for £8.40 then 2 * off-peak Oyster Euston - Watford Junction @£4.30 = £17

Not the cheapest, but cheaper than hitting the peak z1-4 cap.
OK, I see. A small price for convenience I suppose.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
50,360
Location
Yorkshire
It seems that if you start your journey with an Off Peak journey (Euston - Watford Jn contra-peak) can still cause the Peak cap to apply, if that journey is started at a time when peak fares normally apply, even though you are not being charged any peak fares.

(I'm sure the excuse will be that it has to be this way to keep Oyster transaction times down, so I'll pre-empt that! It may well be true, but it shouldn't be designed that way)
 

noblergt

Member
Joined
20 Apr 2011
Messages
50
I think that this is the case for all off-peak journeys when you would need to buy an anytime paper travelcard to complete the same journey. For example, travel between 4.30 and 6.30, or travelling from Amersham after 9.10. Conversely evening peak oyster charges contribute to the off-peak cap since you could use an off-peak travel card at that point.
 

MikeWh

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 Jun 2010
Messages
6,210
Location
Crayford
It seems that if you start your journey with an Off Peak journey (Euston - Watford Jn contra-peak) can still cause the Peak cap to apply, if that journey is started at a time when peak fares normally apply, even though you are not being charged any peak fares.

(I'm sure the excuse will be that it has to be this way to keep Oyster transaction times down, so I'll pre-empt that! It may well be true, but it shouldn't be designed that way)
I think that this is the case for all off-peak journeys when you would need to buy an anytime paper travelcard to complete the same journey. For example, travel between 4.30 and 6.30, or travelling from Amersham after 9.10. Conversely evening peak oyster charges contribute to the off-peak cap since you could use an off-peak travel card at that point.
Almost, but not quite. The peak or off-peak cap is designed to mirror the times when an anytime travelcard would be required. The discounted single fares before 0630 are to encourage travel on quieter trains. When travelling from Amersham between 0910 and 0930 you are actually still paying the peak single fare, but it is counting towards the off-peak cap.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top