Oyster Maximum Journey Times with Interchange

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Nunners

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I'm planning to make a Journey from Clapham Junction to Barking or Dagenham Dock on Saturday using Oyster.

I am planning to go via the GOBLIN as I haven't been that way before and there's a via Gospel Oak fare which is much cheaper than the default.

The potential problem is that the journey time is between 100 and 105 minutes. The oyster maximum journey time for 4 zones (Clapham Jn is Z2 and Dagenham is Z5) is 110 minutes (according to https://oysterfares.com/information-pages/maximum-journey-times/).

As the trains are every 15 minutes and could well be late, the journey time could be legitimately more than the maximum.

I wanted to check that I had the max journey time correct. I was also wondering if the max times are split when touching a pink reader, which I will be at Gospel Oak?

If I do end up being over the max journey time, what do I do? Do I just have to email TfL afterwards? I don't think I have enough credit on the oyster card to have enough left after being charged a maximum fare.

Thanks for any help
 
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Meglos

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Back in 2018 Geoff Marshall travelled Hatton Cross (Zone 5) to Elm Park (Zone 6), via the North London Line which took 30 minutes more than the 2 hours permitted for 6 zones, and he was only charged the minimum fare (£1.50 at the time).

See
for his video explaining the journey
 

MikeWh

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Oh dear!

Geoff's journey was more than 6 zones. You add another zone every time you cross a zone boundary. He did zones 5-4-3-2-3-4-5-6 which is 8 zones. Furthermore, an unpublished feature is that if a journey has more than one route it is likely that the max time for the most zones applies to all routes. Thus you add in a -1-2- and get 10 zones.

Going back to the OP, Clapham Junction to Dagenham Dock is likely to be measured as 2-1-2-3-4-5, so six zones or 135 minutes on a Saturday.

The MJT applies to the whole journey and is not affected by pink readers or out of station interchanges. If disruption occurs then you will likely be charged maximum fare(s). You can phone up the following day and the help desk will sort out the overcharge, but if you have no means of paying it first then I wouldn't risk taking the longer route.
 

zero

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How many zones are on the western crossrail route to Reading for the purposes of max journey times?
 

su31

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I'm planning to make a Journey from Clapham Junction to Barking or Dagenham Dock on Saturday using Oyster.

I am planning to go via the GOBLIN as I haven't been that way before and there's a via Gospel Oak fare which is much cheaper than the default.

The potential problem is that the journey time is between 100 and 105 minutes. The oyster maximum journey time for 4 zones (Clapham Jn is Z2 and Dagenham is Z5) is 110 minutes (according to https://oysterfares.com/information-pages/maximum-journey-times/).

As the trains are every 15 minutes and could well be late, the journey time could be legitimately more than the maximum.

I wanted to check that I had the max journey time correct. I was also wondering if the max times are split when touching a pink reader, which I will be at Gospel Oak?

If I do end up being over the max journey time, what do I do? Do I just have to email TfL afterwards? I don't think I have enough credit on the oyster card to have enough left after being charged a maximum fare.

Thanks for any help
According to the TfL Single Fares Finder. Clapham Junction to Barking (or Dagenham Dock) shows:

Avoiding Zone 1 via Willesden Junction, Gospel Oak and Barking
Oyster & Contactless
Peak: £2.80 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £1.70 At all other times including public holidays.
Pink reader: To ensure you are charged the appropriate fare you must touch on the pink card reader if interchanging at Gospel Oak

How many zones are on the western crossrail route to Reading for the purposes of max journey times?
I couldn't answer that directly, but according to TfL, the max journey time possible is for 20 zones, so possibly from Grays to Reading(?):
Mon-Fri 4 hrs 20 mins; Sat 4 hrs 50 mins; and Sun 5 hrs 15 mins.
 

MikeWh

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How many zones are on the western crossrail route to Reading for the purposes of max journey times?
You won't actually get an answer for this beyond "plenty of time to cover the journey undertaken". This is because TfL have been pressured by the TOCs not to make MJTs clear for longer distance journeys. At the time that I made the FOI request that elicited this response I asked for an internal review citing that the TfL website threatened absolute penalties which would not be refunded if MJTs were exceeded. The result of that review was that the TfL website toned down it's threat significantly.
 

Watershed

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You won't actually get an answer for this beyond "plenty of time to cover the journey undertaken". This is because TfL have been pressured by the TOCs not to make MJTs clear for longer distance journeys. At the time that I made the FOI request that elicited this response I asked for an internal review citing that the TfL website threatened absolute penalties which would not be refunded if MJTs were exceeded. The result of that review was that the TfL website toned down it's threat significantly.
Maximum journey charges are highly likely to be unenforceable (and possibly even unlawful) if they are levied without giving advance notice of the relevant maximum journey time (i.e. for travel outside the numbered zones). Of course, that's not going to stop TfL in their bid to have their cake and eat it.
 

hkstudent

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Maximum journey charges are highly likely to be unenforceable (and possibly even unlawful) if they are levied without giving advance notice of the relevant maximum journey time (i.e. for travel outside the numbered zones). Of course, that's not going to stop TfL in their bid to have their cake and eat it.
To be honest, I would push the maximum benefit of doubt to make any journey not in numbered zones to be journeys of 20 zones (maximum in MJT).
[But don't try it unless you really need to]
 

Horizon22

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How many zones are on the western crossrail route to Reading for the purposes of max journey times?

Hasn't Oyster used up all its zones now? Anything beyond West Drayton is contactless only as a result.
 

MikeWh

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Hasn't Oyster used up all its zones now? Anything beyond West Drayton is contactless only as a result.
Contactless also has maximum journey times and operates in zones when deciding how long they are.
 

Horizon22

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Contactless also has maximum journey times and operates in zones when deciding how long they are.

But is there anywhere publicly available that tells us what these fare zones are?
 

Cdd89

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But is there anywhere publicly available that tells us what these fare zones are?
I recall this FOI from a while back, which has some of what you’re after:


Here is the relevant response, in CSV format (from July 2020):

 

Horizon22

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I recall this FOI from a while back, which has some of what you’re after:


Here is the relevant response, in CSV format (from July 2020):


Thanks, although seeing as it says "no zone" for Western stations, that leaves us none the wiser!
 

MikeWh

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But is there anywhere publicly available that tells us what these fare zones are?
They're not fare zones as such, but no, nowhere lists maximum journey times for travel outside the zones. I suspect that the only way we'll find out is if someone gets maxed out by disruption. Even then I'd say that the problem will be resolved without risking the actual information being exposed.
 

Cdd89

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Do we know special journeys (St Pancras—Stratford International (HS1), Victoria—Gatwick (GEX) and Paddington—Heathrow (HEX)), that are nevertheless within the Oyster zones, follow the MJTs of the zones they belong to (or would be geographically expected to belong to, in the case of Stratford International), or are they thought to have separate MJT arrangements? Apologies if this has been clarified somewhere in the past and missed by me!
 
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