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Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by infobleep, 15 Mar 2015.
This doesn't quite make sense. Am I misunderstanding something.
I got the same travelling to Putney Underground. If my journey is off-peak it is cheaper if I touch a pink reader, but in peak its cheaper to not touch.
There also seem to be some odd and arbitrary caps applied which are nothing like the advertised caps.
All I've noticed when I check oysters from Gatwick onwards is the PAYG cards all showing a £8.00 balance on the reader.
Yep, that's the entry charge applied at Gatwick and Victoria p13-14 at off-peak times. Peak touch in should be £14.00. Southbound you'll only see the usual £5.30/£7.70 unless the pax touched in at 13/14 Vic.
I'm still a little unsure about how off-peak and peak fares work on Oyster (Sorry newbie on Oyster as Oyster never had any use for me previously).
If I go past the reader at 06:26 to catch the 06:34 from Redhill to London Bridge - what will I be charged?
The train is Peak but I've tapped in off-peak. The last off-peak being scheduled at 06:24 but regularly 10 minutes late.
Equally if I tap in at 18:58 does that mean I get charged peak, even though I don't get on a train until 19:08?
Oyster always goes off the time of the initial touch-in (ignoring any OSIs), however some stations switch over slightly earlier than the official time.
Does this mean that in the instance of someone travelling north from Gatwick with £5.30 or £7.70 deducted and not £8.00 or £14.00, eg going from Croydon to Redhill via Gatwick, the guard / RPI should charge an additional fare / penalty fare?
I think you need to learn your geography. Going from Croydon to Redhill is heading south. Going north I guess the Card is charged the basic £8.00 and if they get off at say Croydon a total of say £5.30 will be taken from the card. Its like a sort of pre-authorisation. That's my take. If you mean the punter is going from Croydon to Redhill via Gatwick. Thats not a permitted route and the punter is at risk from a P fare.
Yes, clearly with a paper ticket travelling from Croydon to Redhill via Gatwick (ie south then north) is not permitted.
My question is about the instance of someone circulating via Gatwick (without touching out) having tapped in north of Croydon. Oyster is a bit different as you don't declare your destination until the journey ends - routeing is protected by the maximum journey time instead. If someone has touched in within London, travels to Gatwick and then goes north to Redhill, they would have a deduction of £5.30 / £7.70 instead of £8.00 / £14.00. Does this lead to the guard issuing an additional fare (or penalty fare in the case of an RPI)?
With the ridiculous timetable now in force to Redhill on Saturday evenings ie both trains from Croydon to Redhill in each half hour leaving at the same time, circulating via Gatwick to Redhill might be useful and Oyster of itself doesn't in theory restrict someone to "permitted" routes.
Absolutely not. If someone is within the PAYG area and has tapped in and is within the time limit, then they're valid.
The charge is based on when you touch in, but there are a few minutes' leeway in the passenger's favour at the starts and ends of the peak periods to obviate disputes about clocks being set wrongly and what-not.
That is at least arguable. Doubling back is a grey area.
My interpretation of the rules differs
Here they are: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/Oystercou.pdf
Providing you're complying with that, and - obviously - not doing something unreasonable/outrageous (such as doubling back excessively for no plausible reason) I see no issue.
Do you mean switch from off-peak to peak or from peak to off-peak? (If it's the former, any chance of saying which stations?)
It's the end of the peak, as previously mentioned they all do a small amount to account for the 1st off-peak train. In addition the stations in this list have an early start to the off-peak cap (but still charge peak singles).
Peak starts 2-3 minutes late and ends 2-3 minutes early.
It may be already obvious to some and if it hasn't already been mentioned above, it is sometimes worth "splitting tickets" when using Oyster to Gatwick i.e. switching between different cards. There is the inconvenience and delay of having to touch out then in again at the changeover point, but if you are prepared to do that then you can save money.
The question is, how long before oyster is extended to be used on Heathrow Express/Connect (after Hayes)?
Probably a matter for a different thread, but I'd expect it won't happen on HEx, cos they don't see themselves as integrated with anything else, and Connect wont bother because Crossrail will bring it in anyway when they take over, (as I believe TfL have said before) and no one wants to 'rock the boat' yet.
Unlike GatEx, the Heathrow branch isn't part of the national network, so Heathrow Airport have a great deal of control of the relevant ticket pricing.
It may have been covered already but what are the maximum journey times involving Gatwick? At its extreme how long would you be allowed for a journey from Gatwick to Amersham/Chesham for example?
Also now Gatwick has Oyster how long before the residents of Crawley start demanding to be included as well??
MJTs - good question, I must find out about those myself.
Crawley? They can join the queue behind Reigate and Three Bridges at least. GTR have stated that the point of the exercise is convenience for airport passengers. The intermediate stations have begrudgingly been added so that there isn't a hole where Oyster users can be caught out.
Reference is made in the GTR brief in post 202 http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2423098&postcount=202 that journeys from the stations south of Coulsdon South can only be capped at the daily caps in force from those stations and not some combination of the journey travelled outside London and one of the all-day caps inside.
On Wednesday, I made the following journeys using a contactless card
Train Redhill to Waterloo - touch in at 0609 (£5.80)
Two bus journeys (£1.50 x 2)
Train Waterloo to East Croydon - touch in at 2104 (£3.20)
Two bus journeys (the first charged at £1.40 and the second free)
The overall charge was £13.40. I thought at first this was the 1-5 cap and a single from Redhill to East Croydon but that doesn't add to this amount.
What was charged? And why does this differ from the staff brief which says that the only caps that apply from Redhill are £19 off-peak / £30.50 peak? Is this different for Oyster and Contactless?
The brief is referring to Oyster cards. Contactless will always cap at the most appropriate combination of cap and extension journeys. Annoyingly I can't make your charge out of any sensible combination, so I have to assume that the combination fares for Redhill are different to the single fares to a station in the same zone. Nothing would surprise me if it's connected with the Gatwick extension.
Do you have a railcard?
I capped out at £13-something when I capped on a day starting/ending at Gatwick.
Ah, thanks - so Contactless from Merstham - Gatwick is cheaper than Oyster?
No railcard involved - I'll have to do some more experiments to see how the combinations work out. It is close to Zone 1-2 plus the single fares to Clapham Junction from Redhill and East Croydon - £6.50 plus £4.30 plus £2.50 but that is £13.30 rather than £13.40.
This page and the fares document have still not been updated to include any information for travellers beyond Coulsdon South. The text also contains the following claim, which seems to be false for some of the new fares, e.g. Merstham £19.00/£29.80 daily capped Oyster vs £15.10/£26.80 Day Travelcard.
It looks like splitting peak journeys at Coulsdon South can still result in large savings since capping from there is £11.80 anytime. I guess it would be necessary to use different payment methods either side of the split when doing so by train; an even cheaper alternative is to switch over from/to the 405 bus instead.
As the 405 does not go to Gatwick I should imagine the attractiveness will be roughly at the level it always was, for those splitting between Oyster/Contactless and maybe paper tickets. Some do it; not many!
No, but at off peak times, using Oyster from Gatwick to Redhill, then the 405 to Coulsdon, then a train should by my calculations make for a pretty cheap day out in London....
Oyster off-peak single fares:
Gatwick to Redhill: £2.00
Gatwick to East Croydon: £3.00
Forget the 405, just touch out and in again at East Croydon.