Oyster to Stratford International/Heathrow

[deltic]

Are there any proposals to allow Oyster cards to be used on services to Stratford International - if necessary with a premium charge?

And on Crossrail will premium fares still be charged to Heathrow and will these be possible using Oyster's replacement by then?

 

[calc7]

How many people will pay the current £5.70 single London to Stratford Int? I doubt SE would budge on that price.
The fuss is barely worth it unless you live/work near St Pancras.

 

[jopsuk]

Quite- by the time you've walked through Westfield, for most of central London it'll be quicker to have caught a Central line or Liverpool Street train from Stratford Regional (or Overground, DLR or Jubilee depending on actual destination)

 

[LexyBoy]

How many people will pay the current £5.70 single London to Stratford Int? I doubt SE would budge on that price.
The fuss is barely worth it unless you live/work near St Pancras.

A lot more than do now, if it were on Oyster. Most people wouldn't check the fare and would just touch in. Some would no doubt notice later when they wonder why their balance is going down so fast.

 

[Clip]

How many people will pay the current £5.70 single London to Stratford Int? I doubt SE would budge on that price.
The fuss is barely worth it unless you live/work near St Pancras.

As a regular user from Stratford international I have mentioned before that there are quite a few people who do indeed use it to StP.

Last week when getting off at Stratford there must have been about 20 people getting on..

 

[34D]

How many people will pay the current £5.70 single London to Stratford Int? I doubt SE would budge on that price.
The fuss is barely worth it unless you live/work near St Pancras.

Is there any paper cheaper than that that is valid? Something obscure like Maryland-Kentish Town route any permitted where to use HS1 is less than 3 miles of the shortest route? (I'm not giving that ticket as an actual example, just posing a question).

 

[jon0844]

How about dropping the premium and putting Stratford International inside the zones instead of some little bubble? I can only hope that this might happen after the Olympics, but don't hold out much hope.

 

[island]

How about dropping the premium and putting Stratford International inside the zones instead of some little bubble? I can only hope that this might happen after the Olympics, but don't hold out much hope.

I think you'll find the SET pricing manager doesn't like the idea of the great unwashed using his nice shiny trains!

 

[swt_passenger]

I think you'll find the SET pricing manager doesn't like the idea of the great unwashed using his nice shiny trains!

No, what he doesn't like is the idea of failing to carry out what was specified by the DfT in the franchise spec, way back when under the Labour government.

Can't blame SET for this they do not have any discretion on the matter at all.

 

[jon0844]

I think you'll find the SET pricing manager doesn't like the idea of the great unwashed using his nice shiny trains!

Maybe that's why the trains are still pretty shiny, and not very busy (especially at weekends).

I do like the trains, and the whole thing feels like first class. With less people, it's almost like a private VIP railway - but I am not sure that's really a good thing! I see no real justification for SET (or the DfT or the former Labour Government) thinking it's okay to charge a premium to travel to a station that is taken outside of the zonal system - and not even that clearly marked on maps.

 

[philjo]

Logically they could set the zone boundary to be between Stratford International & Ebbsfleet so that travelcards/PAYG can be used within London for the Stratford to/from St Pancras section. It is that section which would speed up a lot of journeys within London e.g. from Docklands to anywhere involving a train from Kings Cross or St Pancras. Especially at peak hours when you would not want to change at Bank underground.

 

[island]

No, what he doesn't like is the idea of failing to carry out what was specified by the DfT in the franchise spec, way back when under the Labour government.

Can't blame SET for this they do not have any discretion on the matter at all.

If SET wanted to accept Oyster or Travelcards on HS1, it could be arranged.

 

[mattdickinson]

Are there any proposals to allow Oyster cards to be used on services to Stratford International - if necessary with a premium charge?

And on Crossrail will premium fares still be charged to Heathrow and will these be possible using Oyster's replacement by then?

There have been proposals in the past for Heathrow Express to accept Oyster.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/oyster_pay_as_you_go_on_heathrow#incoming-243086

BAA decided not to proceed with them.

 

[paul1609]

There have been proposals in the past for Heathrow Express to accept Oyster.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/oyster_pay_as_you_go_on_heathrow#incoming-243086

BAA decided not to proceed with them.

I dont reckon that oyster will be extended any further until it becomes ITSO compliant. You'll then be able to use it throughout the southeast.
HS1 will initially accept "the key"

 

[benk1342]

Is there any paper cheaper than that that is valid? Something obscure like Maryland-Kentish Town route any permitted where to use HS1 is less than 3 miles of the shortest route? (I'm not giving that ticket as an actual example, just posing a question).

Maryland to STP, route any permitted, is only £3.70 SDS. It seems to me this would be valid via HS1---wouldn't it?

 

[transportphoto]

Maryland to STP, route any permitted, is only £3.70 SDS. It seems to me this would be valid via HS1---wouldn't it?

Now, I can't see why it wouldn't be... But it won't be long before it won't be if this stays around much longer

TP

 

[All Line Rover]

Maryland to STP, route any permitted, is only £3.70 SDS. It seems to me this would be valid via HS1---wouldn't it?

No, it is not valid on HS1. For journeys that don't go beyond St Pancras, only "Plus High Speed" tickets are valid on HS1.

The only reference I can find to support this is this page on Southeastern's website. HS1 ticketing is rather confusing, to be honest (especially between Stratford International and London St Pancras International, as many tickets you would expect to exist seem to be missing!), but I definitely don't think a Maryland to London Terminals ticket is valid, especially as going via Stratford International is an odd route.

The best fare I have found so far, which only saves money if you travel during the peak and make no more than two journeys a week, is a Stratford London to Cheshunt SDR at £9, saving a grand total of 80p compared to a Stratford International to London St Pancras SDR at £9.80.

 

[island]

No, it is not valid on HS1. For journeys that don't go beyond St Pancras, only "Plus High Speed" tickets are valid on HS1.

The only reference I can find to support this is this page on Southeastern's website. HS1 ticketing is rather confusing, to be honest (especially between Stratford International and London St Pancras International, as many tickets you would expect to exist seem to be missing!), but I definitely don't think a Maryland to London Terminals ticket is valid, especially as going via Stratford International is an odd route..

Can you point me to the part of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage that says Southeastern's website governs the trains I may use for my journey? I was of the belief that the following routes were permissible:

A through train
The shortest route or a route up to three miles longer
A route permitted by the Routeing Guide

Has this changed recently?

 

[All Line Rover]

Can you point me to the part of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage that says Southeastern's website governs the trains I may use for my journey? I was of the belief that the following routes were permissible:

A through train
The shortest route or a route up to three miles longer
A route permitted by the Routeing Guide

Has this changed recently?

There is a part in The Manual that discusses HS1 ticketing (obviously I can't quote it as I don't have access to it). It seems that according to Southeastern, HS1 falls outside normal ticketing arrangements.

Whether you agree with this or not is up to you (I certainly don't). But according to Southeastern, the ticket is not valid, and to advise otherwise would be inappropriate as I suspect you would be highly likely to run into trouble with the guard.

 

[benk1342]

No, it is not valid on HS1. For journeys that don't go beyond St Pancras, only "Plus High Speed" tickets are valid on HS1.

The only reference I can find to support this is this page on Southeastern's website. HS1 ticketing is rather confusing, to be honest (especially between Stratford International and London St Pancras International, as many tickets you would expect to exist seem to be missing!), but I definitely don't think a Maryland to London Terminals ticket is valid, especially as going via Stratford International is an odd route.

From a NRCoC standpoint, though, how can they justify this? It seems clearly to be either the shortest route or within 3-miles thereof: Maryland - Liverpool Street is 4.5, plus about 2.5 for the tube to STP, total 7 miles. Maryland to Stratford is .5, plus 6 from Stratford Int'l to STP, is 6.5 miles. Even if you add .5 for the walk from Stratford to Stratford International it's still only 7.

 

[All Line Rover]

From a NRCoC standpoint, though, how can they justify this? It seems clearly to be either the shortest route or within 3-miles thereof: Maryland - Liverpool Street is 4.5, plus about 2.5 for the tube to STP, total 7 miles. Maryland to Stratford is .5, plus 6 from Stratford Int'l to STP, is 6.5 miles. Even if you add .5 for the walk from Stratford to Stratford International it's still only 7.

Please don't ask me how Southeastern justify their HS1 ticketing rules and regulations! None of it makes sense. :roll:

I worry that HS2 will be like this, I really do.

 

[benk1342]

Please don't ask me how Southeastern justify their HS1 ticketing rules and regulations! None of it makes sense. :roll:

I worry that HS2 will be like this, I really do.

So, Southeastern's position is that if I am buying a ticket not priced by Southeastern, from a vendor other than Southeastern, I am nevertheless supposed to check Southeastern's website to see if there are any top-secret terms and conditions that they are imposing, even though I am not entering into a contract with them? This is absurd.

What if you bought a Weber barbecue from John Lewis, and were then sent a bill by Weber saying that if you had checked their website you would see that you have to pay them a royalty for each piece of chicken you cook?

 

[All Line Rover]

So, Southeastern's position is that if I am buying a ticket not priced by Southeastern, from a vendor other than Southeastern, I am nevertheless supposed to check Southeastern's website to see if there are any top-secret terms and conditions that they are imposing, even though I am not entering into a contract with them? This is absurd.

I suggest you contact Southeastern if you are not happy about that page on their website. Perhaps ask them how they can justify the claim that certain "Any Permitted" tickets are not valid on HS1? (Obviously don't mention specific tickets - just SE's "policy"). It might also be worth contacting ATOC about it - you never know, they might give a reasonable answer for once!