Oyster to Welwyn Garden City..

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by jon0844, 29 Nov 2018.

  1. Railguy1

    Railguy1 Member

    Messages:
    84
    Joined:
    6 Apr 2016
    I think having some form of universal way to pay, regardless of what mode of transport you use, can't be so far off into fantasy. It probably wouldn't happen for a few generations though.
     
  2. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

    Messages:
    5,643
    Joined:
    7 Oct 2017
    I think more what is meant is that Oyster only has the capability to deal with up to 15 internal zones. Whilst, in theory, it would of course be possible to allocate Sheffield to Zone '15', that would probably require defining all of what is currently Zones 1-6 as Zone '1'.

    Fundamentally, the issue with smartcard ticketing over such long journeys is that the highest fares may be very expensive: what do you do if someone taps out at Sheffield, having not tapped in. Is the maximum fare charged the London-Sheffield fare? It works OK over a smaller geographic area where the fares may be lower, but it doesn't work terribly well with such a large scheme.
     
  3. kieron

    kieron Established Member

    Messages:
    2,198
    Joined:
    22 Mar 2012
    Location:
    Connah's Quay
    If your local MP is the guy who ran one of those businesses which has no satisfied customers, then that can only be a good thing. And better luck next time.
     
  4. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

    Messages:
    6,813
    Joined:
    26 Jan 2009
    Location:
    Central Belt
    This particular problem only seems to impact the key (which to be honest is a dreadful product). At Old Street, the barriers were always open in the AM peak (before they were replaced this year) without issue. Well I say without issue as the people with contactless took longer to clear the barriers as they were not certain if the card had registered or not.

    The savey people of course tapped out down stairs to avoid the scrum upstairs. But not as bad a WGC which never reads the cards so you have to phone up an beg. I even tried using the reader by the lift when the gates were open - no luck.

    Key point is - Oyster seems to work when the gates are open, the key doesn't. But then the key frequently overcharges.
     
  5. londonbridge

    londonbridge Member

    Messages:
    810
    Joined:
    30 Jun 2010
    Went to Walsall for the match yesterday. Came back into Euston and instinctively tapped out with my contactless card, forgetting about my paper ticket from Birmingham New Street which was in my wallet! (First time I've ever managed to do this, probably because I can't remember the last time I came into Euston mainline and was faced with a closed barrier in order to exit). Needless to say my account now shows £5.50 for an incomplete journey with the invitation to apply for a refund. Have already emailed TFL explaining what happened and that my actual journey was Euston Underground-Croydon NR, so hopefully the charge will be cancelled.

    Update: Got an email back from TFL, having checked my history they're refunding the £5.50 as this is the first time I've made this type of claim, but if it happens again they might want proof of holding a paper ticket.
     
    Last edited: 5 Dec 2018
  6. Mintwasabe

    Mintwasabe New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    8 Mar 2018
  7. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

    Messages:
    1,526
    Joined:
    8 Mar 2011
    Though that mentions contactless facilities, is that to do with the TVM's where you can pay by contactless for tickets and Key-go tickets or the actual validators on the Gatelines? If the former then it could just mean that there will be no facility to top-up Oyster cards at the station, rather than the validators not accepting Oyster. It is not clear from the article!
     
  8. mattdickinson

    mattdickinson Member

    Messages:
    391
    Joined:
    14 Nov 2010
    Location:
    Uxbridge
    Radlett is definitely to be contactless only, so I would imagine that Welwyn will be the same.
     
  9. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

    Messages:
    1,526
    Joined:
    8 Mar 2011
    Just Radlett? I thought the scheme proposed was for it to be extended to Luton Airport Parkway, so it brings another question if all those stations (Luton Airport Parkway, Harpenden, St Albans and Radlett) will only take contactless then, it doesn't seem to make much sense to be so anti-Oyster as it will confuse a lot of passengers when it does go live!
     
  10. higthomas

    higthomas Member

    Messages:
    907
    Joined:
    27 Nov 2012
    It's not anti oyster. Sadly they just use different technologies, and oyster doesn't have the ability to add any more stations whereas contactless does.
     
  11. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

    Messages:
    1,526
    Joined:
    8 Mar 2011
    It does seem a bit bizarre though, considering stations like Gatwick Airport and Redhill now take Oyster and are stations where the Key smartcard could also be used at, is it because TFL are reluctant to add the proposed stations to the Oyster system or Thameslink/GN reluctant to upgrade the yellow readers perhaps?!
     
  12. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

    Messages:
    6,354
    Joined:
    27 Apr 2011
    It's to do with the number of 'zones' that Oyster can cope with. IIRC it's limited to 15 and they're all used up (I think one is reserved for Reading for when Crossrail starts). Until Oyster switches to back office processing (which is what contactless uses) it can't be extended any further, unless new stations are put into an existing zone.
     
  13. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

    Messages:
    1,526
    Joined:
    8 Mar 2011
    Thank you, that makes sense! I guess if Thameslink don't agree with the pricing that the current zones are then I can see why these stations won't be allocated zones. Though the fares between London and Luton airport parkway/Luton Airport are actually cheaper than the fares from London to Reading so they could well use Zone 14 or 15 for Luton Airport. I guess TFL doesn't have much incentive to make those back office changes unless it gets funding from the TOC!
     
  14. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,190
    Joined:
    5 Nov 2014
    Does anyone know when oyster/contactless is coming to Hatfield.
     
  15. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    23,991
    Joined:
    1 Feb 2009
    Location:
    UK
    Oyster to Potters Bar and contactless to WGC estimated for October.
     
  16. BlueHorizonUK

    BlueHorizonUK Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    21 Mar 2018
  17. higthomas

    higthomas Member

    Messages:
    907
    Joined:
    27 Nov 2012
    Summary of above is Potters Bar and Radlett last Tuesday and Brookmans Park (contactless only) today. Has this actually happened?

    Is/will Brookmans Park be the first contactless only station?
     
  18. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    23,991
    Joined:
    1 Feb 2009
    Location:
    UK
    It's now live. Potters Bar for Oyster and contactless, and Brookmans Park for contactless only.
     
  19. PeterC

    PeterC Established Member

    Messages:
    2,032
    Joined:
    29 Sep 2014
    The proliferation of contactless only had me wondering. In the operation of readers / gates does 60+ and Freedom Pass acceptance come as a bundle with accepting Oyster or can they be separated.

    Apart from the mechanics of of the readers I can see that not accepting Oyster PAYG does remove an expectation for acceptance of other Oyster based cards.
     
  20. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,190
    Joined:
    5 Nov 2014
    freedom pass not valid outside of zones except on tfl services
     
  21. PeterC

    PeterC Established Member

    Messages:
    2,032
    Joined:
    29 Sep 2014
    I know about the validity, I was asking about the mechanics of the Oyster readers / gates
     
  22. Surreytraveller

    Surreytraveller Established Member

    Messages:
    1,355
    Joined:
    21 Oct 2009
    Define 'zone'. Surely anywhere that accepts contactless or Oyster is in a zone?
     
  23. Ethano92

    Ethano92 Member

    Messages:
    297
    Joined:
    26 Jun 2017
    Location:
    New Malden
    If oyster isn't accepted at Brookmans park, does that mean under 18s can't use zip oyster card, doesn't seem ideal.
     
  24. mattdickinson

    mattdickinson Member

    Messages:
    391
    Joined:
    14 Nov 2010
    Location:
    Uxbridge
    Any station that accepts Oyster is in a zone (sometimes unpublicised.)

    Brookmans Park and the other stations that will have contactless only acceptance are not.
     
  25. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    23,991
    Joined:
    1 Feb 2009
    Location:
    UK
    Is Potters Bar the same 'zone' as Broxbourne, or has it actually been put inside zone 6?
     
  26. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

    Messages:
    6,813
    Joined:
    26 Jan 2009
    Location:
    Central Belt
    I heard it was Zone B. Whatever that means. So i suspect it isn’t in the travel card zone.

    Any reason they can’t go all the way to WGC in 1 hit. Surely it is the same system(s) as Brookmans park.
     
  27. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    5,676
    Joined:
    15 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Crayford
    Yes, Potters Bar is zone B or 11. They probably want to test out the contactless only option before adding more stations. Ie how many passengers turn up from London with Oyster cards, how much use does it get etc etc
     
  28. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

    Messages:
    6,813
    Joined:
    26 Jan 2009
    Location:
    Central Belt
    I haven’t seen the fares yet, but from what I understand the savings are not as good as most people expect and in many cases you are better sticking with the paper tickets. I will watch with interest as I am further up the line and use Carnets. I hate them as everyone assumes your are a criminal when you use them. GTR refuse to put them on the key (despite the fact they say everyone using them is a criminal and make our lives extremely unpleasant by having them blocked from most barriers)

    If contract less / oyster is cheaper (or the same cost) I am sure people will snap their hand off. If it is more expensive they will carry on the same.

    I tend to use combinations.
    1. Carnet on my daily commute as I can use peak in and off-peak out. (if that didn't exist would be on a season)
    2. Super off-peak to London terminals - then contactless card for tube bit (if 2 journeys)
    3. Paper travelcard (for multiple journeys in London)

    If 2 and 3 work out the same cost on contractless then I will use it, if they don't I will stay with paper. It is nice having an option if purchasing a ticket will force you to miss your train but key-go covers this at the moment.

    I think it will be used a lot as most people thing oyster = cheaper. I think many will find out the hard way it isn't always.
     
  29. Mintwasabe

    Mintwasabe New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    8 Mar 2018
    I am in the same boat as you - I travel mostly off-peak from WGC-London 4/5 weekdays. My cheapest combination currently is:

    1. Oyster zone 1-2 travelcard (nets me an annual gold card)
    2. Daily Off-peak return tickets WGC-FPK with 30% gold card discount

    This system seems likely to be the cheapest even after contactless/oyster arrives and thus I anticipate being stuck with paper tickets for the foreseeable future.
     
  30. mattdickinson

    mattdickinson Member

    Messages:
    391
    Joined:
    14 Nov 2010
    Location:
    Uxbridge
    A new TfL London rail map has been released.

    It now includes Brookmans Park with a Contactless symbol by it.
     

Share This Page