Pacer vs Pacer

[_toommm_]

I’ve always wondered what the difference is between a 142 and a 143? Living in South Yorkshireire we have pacers galore but not 143s. 144s are clearly a different class (get it) if Pacers but what’s the difference between the former two?

Thanks in advance

 

[507021]

I’ve always wondered what the difference is between a 142 and a 143? Living in South Yorkshireire we have pacers galore but not 143s. 144s are clearly a different class (get it) if Pacers but what’s the difference between the former two?

Thanks in advance

The difference is the Class 142 bodies were built by Leyland whereas the Class 143 and 144 bodies were built by Walter Alexander.

 

[D365]

For the record, Classes 143 and 144 are virtually identical in specification, but assembled by different manufacturers and operate with different TOCs.

 

[driver9000]

143s were built by Hunslet.
144s were built by Alexander.

Below the solebar 142-144 are virtually identical and are all in the same traction manual for Northern.

 

[pdeaves]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that 142s were built from bus body parts, whereas the 143s/144s were built from custom modules that look a bit like bus body parts, but aren't.

 

[talltim]

Disappointed, I thought this thread was going to be about Pacer fighting.

 

[DarloRich]

Disappointed, I thought this thread was going to be about Pacer fighting.

me to!

We will now hand over to our MC for the evening Michael Buffer: Ladies and Gentleman it is now time for the main event. Twelve 3 minute rounds of championship boxing for the S%*tbox championship of the world!

In the blue corner, the Challenger, the transport pride of Exeter, INGERLAND, the Devon Destroyer, the Cardiff Clubber, wearing the green livery of GWR & weighing in at 48t is CLASS 143

And in the Red corner, from Leeds, West Yorkshire and weighing in at 43.82T is the Manchester mauler, the Sheffield slugger, wearing the blue and white livery of Northern and the undisputed champion of the wooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrllllllllllllllld: CLASS 142

LETS GET READY TO RUMBBBBBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that 142s were built from bus body parts, whereas the 143s/144s were built from custom modules that look a bit like bus body parts, but aren't.

Sort of. 141s used barely-modified Leyland National bodyshells, hence only 2+2 seating. 142s used slightly more-modified bodyshells still adapted from the National- these were wider and longer than 141s. The 143s & 144s were also adapted from a bus design by Alexander, but bore little resemblance to the buses at the end of it. The Alexander bus design was not as successful on the road as the Leyland National though! As stated upthread, below the solebar the 142/3/4 are pretty much all alike.

me to!

We will now hand over to our MC for the evening Michael Buffer: Ladies and Gentleman it is now time for the main event. Twelve 3 minute rounds of championship boxing for the S%*tbox championship of the world!

In the blue corner, the Challenger, the transport pride of Exeter, INGERLAND, the Devon Destroyer, the Cardiff Clubber, wearing the green livery of GWR & weighing in at 48t is CLASS 143

And in the Red corner, from Leeds, West Yorkshire and weighing in at 43.82T is the Manchester mauler, the Sheffield slugger, wearing the blue and white livery of Northern and the undisputed champion of the wooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrllllllllllllllld: CLASS 142

LETS GET READY TO RUMBBBBBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that I'd pay to see... Let's see if we can crowdfund the purchase of a few Pacers, whatever tech the RTC used on the Atomic 46, and hiring out Old Dalby or Marnham for a weekend...

 

[DarloRich]

Now that I'd pay to see... Let's see if we can crowdfund the purchase of a few Pacers, whatever tech the RTC used on the Atomic 46, and hiring out Old Dalby or Marnham for weekend...

pay per view - ITV 17+2

 

[NickBucks]

Ah yes. The Leyland National. Another example of UK's dynamic motor vehicle industry.

 

[Goldie]

I desperately wanted this thread to be about some sort of epic battle between Pacers that are also Transformers.

 

[Tracked]

I think it's been mentioned before, but you know that Top Gear episode where they play conkers with caravans ...

 

[yorksrob]

I think it's been mentioned before, but you know that Top Gear episode where they play conkers with caravans ...

The 144 would still be in one piece whilst the 142 would be in shards.

 

[Elecman]

The 142 didn't survive being hit by a electric Loco at Winsford at a relatively very low speed

 

[nlogax]

me to!

We will now hand over to our MC for the evening Michael Buffer: Ladies and Gentleman it is now time for the main event. Twelve 3 minute rounds of championship boxing for the S%*tbox championship of the world!

In the blue corner, the Challenger, the transport pride of Exeter, INGERLAND, the Devon Destroyer, the Cardiff Clubber, wearing the green livery of GWR & weighing in at 48t is CLASS 143

And in the Red corner, from Leeds, West Yorkshire and weighing in at 43.82T is the Manchester mauler, the Sheffield slugger, wearing the blue and white livery of Northern and the undisputed champion of the wooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrllllllllllllllld: CLASS 142

LETS GET READY TO RUMBBBBBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahh..never a 'like' button around when you need one

 

[Eccles1983]

The 142 didn't survive being hit by a electric Loco at Winsford at a relatively very low speed

A class 87 at 50mph isnt relatively low speed.

 

[SGS]

143s were built by Hunslet.
144s were built by Alexander

My recollection:

142: BREL chassis, Leyland body.
143: Andrew Barclay chassis, Alexander body.
144: BREL chassis, Alexander body.

Does anyone know why the 143s were transferred from the North East to South Wales back in the day?

 

[PHILIPE]

My recollection:

142: BREL chassis, Leyland body.
143: Andrew Barclay chassis, Alexander body.
144: BREL chassis, Alexander body.

Does anyone know why the 143s were transferred from the North East to South Wales back in the day?

To replace heritage DMUs.

 

[alexl92]

Doesn't the 143 have a different gearbox/transmission or drivertrain to the 144 or something?

 

[Brunel 1954]

Sort of. 141s used barely-modified Leyland National bodyshells, hence only 2+2 seating. 142s used slightly more-modified bodyshells still adapted from the National- these were wider and longer than 141s. The 143s & 144s were also adapted from a bus design by Alexander, but bore little resemblance to the buses at the end of it. The Alexander bus design was not as successful on the road as the Leyland National though! As stated upthread, below the solebar the 142/3/4 are pretty much all alike.



Now that I'd pay to see... Let's see if we can crowdfund the purchase of a few Pacers, whatever tech the RTC used on the Atomic 46, and hiring out Old Dalby or Marnham for a weekend...

How can you say that the leyland National bus design was successful? We had them in Plymouth for a short time and they were appalling, very badly built, unreliable and apt to collide with bus shelters as the weight distribution was all wrong.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

How can you say that the leyland National bus design was successful? We had them in Plymouth for a short time and they were appalling, very badly built, unreliable and apt to collide with bus shelters as the weight distribution was all wrong.

Successful and Good are not synonyms unfortunately. Yorkshire Traction had them until around 2001 so they must've got something right!

 

[xotGD]

My recollection:

142: BREL chassis, Leyland body.
143: Andrew Barclay chassis, Alexander body.
144: BREL chassis, Alexander body.

Does anyone know why the 143s were transferred from the North East to South Wales back in the day?

IIRC, they wanted to replace 150s with bendys on the Valley Lines services to save money.

If it hadn't been for the poorness of the 143s, we wouldn't have had so many loco-hauled replacements to enjoy in the north east back then - syphontastic.

 

[PHILIPE]

IIRC, they wanted to replace 150s with bendys on the Valley Lines services to save money.

If it hadn't been for the poorness of the 143s, we wouldn't have had so many loco-hauled replacements to enjoy in the north east back then - syphontastic.

Not quite right. It was the ATW 142s that replaced the 150s, a straught swap with Northern. (FNW at time). Overcrowding led to LHCS and nothing to do with 143s performance.

 

[sprinterguy]

Not quite right. It was the ATW 142s that replaced the 150s, a straught swap with Northern. (FNW at time).

Valley Lines swapped a batch of ten 150/2s for 142s from Northern Spirit in 1998. A further bit of jiggery pokery saw the original batch of 142s sent to Wales swapped for a different set from the north east in 2001. You're quite right that this had nothing to do with the cascade of class 143s from the north east some years earlier, though.

Overcrowding led to LHCS and nothing to do with 143s performance

You're the first person I've seen claim that the late eighties Pacer replacers were to do with anything other than the woeful reliability of the class 143s in original condition. It's why they were fitted with replacement engines and gearboxes after all.

 

[PHILIPE]

Valley Lines swapped a batch of ten 150/2s for 142s from Northern Spirit in 1998. A further bit of jiggery pokery saw the original batch of 142s sent to Wales swapped for a different set from the north east in 2001. You're quite right that this had nothing to do with the cascade of class 143s from the north east some years earlier, though.

You're the first person I've seen claim that the late eighties Pacer replacers were to do with anything other than the woeful reliability of the class 143s in original condition. It's why they were fitted with replacement engines and gearboxes after all.

I can't recall them being that bad as made out. Perhaps my memory is not serving me directly but, at the time, I was actively employed in work very close to the 143s, i.e. as a diagrammer.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wasn't the 143-shift a rather convoluted response to 142s being especially rubbish on the Devon and Cornwall branches? Heritage units from South Wales drafted in to replace, then 143s moved down to replace those, so that the "Skippers" could go to Heaton?

As for a Pacer battle, you'd expect the 143/144 to be a better "wrecking ball" but I reckon if you were to race a 142 and a 143/144 at full whack (and beyond!) along an infinite stretch of double-track HSR just to see which one died or self-immolated first, my money would be on the Leyland unit lasting longer.

 

[DarloRich]

Overcrowding led to LHCS and nothing to do with 143s performance.

Not in the North East it didn't. The 143's when new broke and Heaton (?) threw absolutely anything into service. We even got the heritage units that the 143's replaced back for a short while, I think from south wales!

 

[xotGD]

Not in the North East it didn't. The 143's when new broke and Heaton (?) threw absolutely anything into service. We even got the heritage units that the 143's replaced back for a short while, I think from south wales!

I seem to remember some dubious ex-Thames Valley DMU sets turning up at Heaton too.

Loco haulage Boro-Toon-Carlisle had nothing to do with overcrowding - purely down to lack of available bendys.

 

[DarloRich]

I seem to remember some dubious ex-Thames Valley DMU sets turning up at Heaton too.

Loco haulage Boro-Toon-Carlisle had nothing to do with overcrowding - purely down to lack of available bendys.

Some of the units seemed fairly rotten and I always suspected they came off the scrap line after an emergency call went out!

 

[RichmondCommu]

me to!

We will now hand over to our MC for the evening Michael Buffer: Ladies and Gentleman it is now time for the main event. Twelve 3 minute rounds of championship boxing for the S%*tbox championship of the world!

In the blue corner, the Challenger, the transport pride of Exeter, INGERLAND, the Devon Destroyer, the Cardiff Clubber, wearing the green livery of GWR & weighing in at 48t is CLASS 143

And in the Red corner, from Leeds, West Yorkshire and weighing in at 43.82T is the Manchester mauler, the Sheffield slugger, wearing the blue and white livery of Northern and the undisputed champion of the wooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrllllllllllllllld: CLASS 142

LETS GET READY TO RUMBBBBBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And post of the year goes to DarloRich.