Pacers and the EU

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centraltrains

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If we leave the EU would pacers be allowed to stay beyond 2020?

Also on the EU point; does that mean more current model diesels can be built after that cut of year for emissions?

(I can't find it mentioned anywhere in search so if this has been said before I would appreciate any links!)
 
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6Gman

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If we leave the EU would pacers be allowed to stay beyond 2020?

Also on the EU point; does that mean more current model diesels can be built after that cut of year for emissions?

(I can't find it mentioned anywhere in search so if this has been said before I would appreciate any links!)

1. Only if we change the Disability Discrimination Act.
2. Only if we change the law.
 

100andthirty

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The EU has mandated the Technical Specification for Interoperability for Persons of Reduced Mobility as part of the suite of mandatory specifications as part of the Interoperability Directive. An EU Directive has to be transposed into the law of the member states within a certain time from the Directive being mandated. UK has complied with the Interoperability Regulations 2011. EU has mandated little or nothing to be applied to existing vehicles. It is the UK government that determined and imposed the 2020 date. There was no pressure from the EU and this date isn't applicable anywhere else in the EU.

By the way, the development of the TSI PRM was led by a Brit and is very similar to the UK's previous legislation - the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations - which have been retained for Metro/Light Rail (where TSIs don't apply)
 

Starmill

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We can do what we like - including abandoning our commitment (and fairly middling targets) to improve equality and protect the environment if we really want to. But why would we want to? These things cost more because, as a society, we value them.
 

AM9

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If we leave the EU would pacers be allowed to stay beyond 2020?

They can anyway if the government chose to support a derogation and defend that decision in any subsequent human rights action. Such action might result in a financial penalty but the likely scale of it may be taken into consideration at the time of decision.
Even the most rabid anti-EU elements would not pretend that the government couldn't allow it. There wouldn't be any EU police force preventing their continued use.

Also on the EU point; does that mean more current model diesels can be built after that cut of year for emissions?

Same as the above, the government could support a derogation but that is only likely to be satisfied with either a UK manufacturer of a other Non-EU based supplier who doesn't have any aspirations of selling in the EU markets.

(I can't find it mentioned anywhere in search so if this has been said before I would appreciate any links!)

There has been expectations of every unpopular train being banished from the network by the end of 2019 but they seem more based on wishful thinking than establishing that no exceptions would be made as a matter of fact. Although I can't put my finger on any at the moment, I have heard of technical derogations in the UK and some other major nations on things such as EMC and chemical pollution issues.
 

SpacePhoenix

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For some lines it might well be a case of either pacers get used or the line closes. If a line closes the emissions from all the extra cars on the road as a result might well exceed the emissions put out by a pacer
 

colchesterken

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Lets see how the cl 230 s shape up in main line testing
If they meet the standards then the pacers could be replaced by them
 

yorkie

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1. Only if we change the Disability Discrimination Act.
That was repealed in 2010 ;)
2. Only if we change the law.
Quoted from RVAR 2010:-

Rail vehicle accessibility legislation is complex but as a general summary:

  • mainline trains built from 1999 to 2009 have to comply with standards created through earlier legislation (the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations 1998 - replaced by RVAR 2010) unless exemptions have been granted by the Department for Transport (DfT);
  • mainline trains built from 2010 onwards have to comply with the PRM TSI;
  • non-mainline rail vehicles (such as London Underground trains, trams and some heritage railways) are covered by RVAR 2010;
  • rail vehicles built before 1999 do not at present need to comply with any accessibility legislation although operators may choose to make improvements for the benefit of their passengers.
DfT sets the overall policy on accessibility across all transport modes, including the target for all rail vehicles – both heavy and light rail – to be accessible by no later than 1 January 2020 (unless appropriate exemptions are in place).
So exemptions can be made...
 

NorthernSpirit

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an awful lot of people don't realise this sort ofthing which is what the Leave campaign plays on with it's true facts.

I'm a leaver primarily because my job WILL go to the wall if we stayed in, we're not all on £20k a year y'know - some of use are on £7k a year which hal of that is spent on rent.

An idea for the Pacers would be to send them to areas where a majority of voters are remainiacs, they'll soon change their tune when they're greeted with a two car Miseryrail 142 with no heater - ideal political tools these units are.

Anyway as someone who wants to leave the EU, some regulations are performed by the British Government where as some others are EU regulations, such as emmisions or the efficency of the lights bulbs used are.
 

Starmill

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I'm sorry back up a bit. What does a pacer have to do with being in the EU? How is leaving going to improve that?
 

D365

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An idea for the Pacers would be to send them to areas where a majority of voters are remainiacs, they'll soon change their tune when they're greeted with a two car Miseryrail 142 with no heater - ideal political tools these units are.

Quite the diplomat, aren't you...


For some lines it might well be a case of either pacers get used or the line closes.

That little tidbit has long been disproven as froth, coming from successive anti-rail parliaments.

If a line closes the emissions from all the extra cars on the road as a result might well exceed the emissions put out by a pacer

Emissions are nothing to do with the case for Pacer/Sprinter withdrawal - grandfather rights apply.
 
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I'm a leaver primarily because my job WILL go to the wall if we stayed in, we're not all on £20k a year y'know - some of use are on £7k a year which hal of that is spent on rent.

.

oh really , that must be a part time role / you are a crap business person ...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm sorry back up a bit. What does a pacer have to do with being in the EU? How is leaving going to improve that?

I think the assumption of the OPs was that if we leave the ' rules from Brussels force withdrawl of Pacers' wouldn't apply - despite the fact it;s a British interpretation of the rules put into british legislation and to some degree 'gold plated' in the interests of better accessibility ...
 

Philip Phlopp

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The British Parliament could repeal the emissions legislation inherited from the EU, but they'll still find it difficult or impossible to source engines that aren't Euro/EPA emissions standard compliant, as that's what companies like MTU, CAT and Cummins will be supplying to the core European and US markets (the US EPA emissions legislation is being matched to EU Euro emissions legislation).

The same will be true for things like lightbulbs - the legislation limiting the use of incandescent lightbulbs could be repealed, but there's hardly any factories making them anymore, so sourcing them won't be easy. The likes of Silvania and Philips have refitted their plants to make compact fluorescent and LED bulbs now.

Politics is just like McDonalds advertising - lure you in with a picture of a tasty looking burger and feed you a lukewarm revolting soggy bun, wet lettuce, dry tomato and burnt burger.
 

trash80

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An idea for the Pacers would be to send them to areas where a majority of voters are remainiacs, they'll soon change their tune when they're greeted with a two car Miseryrail 142 with no heater - ideal political tools these units are.

Er sorry don't quite understand what you mean. Why would Pacers make people want to leave the EU?
 

Harbornite

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An idea for the Pacers would be to send them to areas where a majority of voters are remainiacs, they'll soon change their tune when they're greeted with a two car Miseryrail 142 with no heater - ideal political tools these units are.

Irrelevant wibble.
 
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