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Paddington to Penzance sleepers.....

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tsr

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As it happened at Taunton, surely the WSR could have stepped in to provide something? <D

That is what I was suggesting, in a flippant sort of way! ;)

It does make you wonder when one of England's most prestigious heritage railways can't find a decent loco and crew at 4.30am... :o (:lol:)
 
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83G/84D

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I wouldn't disagree, 150/1s on long distance routes is never good. In fact they are probably the most unsuitable units in the fleets (as the 143s can't go to Penzance anyway).

It makes you think that in the 1980s the 150/1 was BRs flagship unit and did many long distance journeys such as Ipswich - Leeds and Birmingham to Lincoln :cry:

Just to clarify 143's are passed on most lines in Cornwall, the issue is traincrew knowledge (or lack of it) as no traincrew at Laira, Par or Penzance sign them.
 

matchmaker

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Incidentally... is there any reason why the sleepers aren't hauled by 43s? It would save FGW having to have a small selection of different locos to the rest of their fleet (this largely ignores the fact that I guess all the 43s are on normal HST sets...)

Different ETS - normal ETS is 800/1000 volt AC/DC. HST's have 415 volt 3-phase AC ETS.
 

Dunderhead

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I would rather be woken at a reasonable hour and be late, thank you very much.

Also, would the driver not be in trouble for hotboxing the loco? Surely that's a bit irresponsible.

This got me thinking about a whole different meaning of the term "hotboxing"...
 

34D

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I would rather be woken at a reasonable hour and be late, thank you very much.

Also, would the driver not be in trouble for hotboxing the loco? Surely that's a bit irresponsible.

Possibly the train would be 50/50 between people who wish to be woken early to get a replacement train and people who wish to stay asleep til 8am regardless.

What do you think a hotbox is?
 

455driver

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I wouldn't disagree, 150/1s on long distance routes is never good. In fact they are probably the most unsuitable units in the fleets (as the 143s can't go to Penzance anyway).

Since when?

Although the chances of 143s being sent to Penzance have diminished with the influx of 150s, I have been on a few 143s to Penzance in the last couple of years with an Exeter based crew on it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Even if it ment shoving a random 66 on from EWS until the 57 could get there to pull it, or getting one of the ETH fitted 67s from Cardiff to take it...

Probably because there wasnt a "spare" loco or driver available, it may surprise you to know that just because a loco is sat in the yard doesnt mean it isnt allocated to a train later that same morning. If the loco was sent out on the sleepers what would haul the train which is now engineless.

There are basically very few spare locos and even less spare drivers at any time of day and at 0200 I bet there are no spare drivers anywhere in the Country.

The days of 20 drivers sitting in the messroom playing cards are long gone (tbh you are lucky to see 1), at our place there are usually drivers from other depots covering our work because we are short of drivers or visa versa.
 
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SprinterMan

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As it happened at Taunton, surely the WSR could have stepped in to provide something? <D

Mathematical substitution; you don't get that every day!

Incidentally... is there any reason why the sleepers aren't hauled by 43s? It would save FGW having to have a small selection of different locos to the rest of their fleet (this largely ignores the fact that I guess all the 43s are on normal HST sets...)

As you say, all the 43s are on normal HST sets. Also, a 57 probably uses about half the fuel of 2x43s, and the sleeper coaches aren't through-wired for HST-style multiple working.

Adam :P
 

Requeststop

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Fancy being turfed out of your cosy bed in the middle of the night into a unit. I would not be a happy bunny! <(
My experience of sleepers is that the first thing I have to do is make the bed as the blankets and sheets inevitably become untucked the moment I get in the bed. Yes I'd be very unhappy being woken up in the middle of the night to pass into another unit. Dragging my luggage too. My preference would be to be allowed to sleep on.

Surely they would have a standby at Bristol/Exeter as a just in case? And afterall, there is a 1hr 31m wait at Plymouth.

The situation if it arose would be of more concern in the opposite direct with many sleeper passengers wanting to connect to early morning flights at Heathrow via Reading and Paddington and the link.

Anyhow looking forward to my 1st class sleeper on 25th June to from Truro. I always find the attendants very pleasant and friendly. Hoping for no probs like above.
 

Yew

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Incidentally... is there any reason why the sleepers aren't hauled by 43s?

They have in the past when locos have failed, the 47 would provide eth, and the hsts coupled together class 20 style (cabs facing outwards) then 'chained' to the front of the 47.
 

455driver

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Surely they would have a standby at Bristol/Exeter as a just in case? And afterall, there is a 1hr 31m wait at Plymouth.

So you want a loco to be stood at Exeter (all prepped and with a driver on board) in the unlikely event it might be needed to rescue something?

You would be happy to pay £10 extra on your ticket price to pay for it.

The railways are now a business run for the benefit of the shareholders, the days of spare resources sat in sidings are long gone, get with the modern age will you!
 

HSTEd

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What sort of top speed is actually required to do the run?
If the sleeper rakes could be fitted with Chiltern style DVTs you could haul it with whatever is convenient.

Even with electric haul to Bristol.
 

tsr

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So you want a loco to be stood at Exeter (all prepped and with a driver on board) in the unlikely event it might be needed to rescue something?

You would be happy to pay £10 extra on your ticket price to pay for it.

The railways are now a business run for the benefit of the shareholders, the days of spare resources sat in sidings are long gone, get with the modern age will you!

Would it not be easier (if not cheaper) to have multiple drivers who are trained and have the required knowledge of the alternative loco, but generally drive as per normal (i.e. normal stock)? You could have the emergency loco parked up, and this could have that pool of drivers available; then what you need to do is get it prepared when an incident occurs, perhaps by staff who take turns on a night-time callout rota (the actual probability of any member of staff being sent to prepare the emergency loco would be as low as the risk of the original service failing, divided by the number of staff on the rota - a low risk).

The emergency loco could also be available as an additional Thunderbird in the morning and evening peaks, should this be cost effective.
 

TEW

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Exeter also have jobs during the week into cornwall , not just weekends

Indeed, but on weekdays there are now units which go to Penzance and back only worked by Exeter crew, which rules out using 143s or 158s.
 

Zoe

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Indeed, but on weekdays there are now units which go to Penzance and back only worked by Exeter crew, which rules out using 143s or 158s.
Does no-one at Exeter sign 143s?
 

crewmeal

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These 57's have proved unreliable since they came on line giving a less than satisfactory service. Perhaps they should start to top and tail them to improve reliability.

I guess with the franchise due then FGW won't be spending too much on them until the outcome is known.
 

ainsworth74

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Quite so, I'm not sure it's clear the sleepers will even survive the change.

Why? Has there been any evidence that they might be considered an optional part of the franchise specification?
 

IanXC

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Why? Has there been any evidence that they might be considered an optional part of the franchise specification?

My understanding is that at the last franchise renewal First chose to continue the Night Riviera, rather than it being included in the specification.
 

Peter Mugridge

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They have in the past when locos have failed, the 47 would provide eth, and the hsts coupled together class 20 style (cabs facing outwards) then 'chained' to the front of the 47.

Yes, but with the 57 having a hot box that wouldn't have been possible to do in this case would it?
 

TEW

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Does no-one at Exeter sign 143s?

Yes, but no crew further west do. On weekends there are units which will go to Penzance and back just using Exeter crew, hence why nearly all the 143s that have gone to Penzance recently have been on weekends. On weekdays all units that go to Cornwall will be worked by another depot at some point, preventing a 143 being used.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Exeter men sign 143''s as they are on the Devon circuit every day,not sure about 158's.

Not sure if all the links do but at least some of the links still have 158 work in the Bristol area, Taunton-Cardiff services still have 158s on and quite a few Taunton-Cardiff services are worked by Exeter crew.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes, but with the 57 having a hot box that wouldn't have been possible to do in this case would it?

No, hence why the 57 had to be put on wheelskate for further movement, a hot axle prevents any further movement usually.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
These 57's have proved unreliable since they came on line giving a less than satisfactory service. Perhaps they should start to top and tail them to improve reliability.

I guess with the franchise due then FGW won't be spending too much on them until the outcome is known.

They aren't that unreliable, it's just that nearly every single failure of a 57 is recorded because the sleepers attract more interest than most trains. A hot axle box could happen on any piece of stock, it's not a fault particularly common on 57s. Because the fleet is quite small as well even one failure often necessitates the use of the 08 or a hired in locomotive, which again gives the impression of unreliability. Having an extra locomotive would mean a requirement of only 66% availability from the fleet, which is really bad. With 4 locos you couldn't top and tail because it would require 100% availability, which isn't going to happen. Running one 57 on the back dead for 300 miles each night is probably going to cause some nice wheelflats as well, as happened to the 57s and 67s on the Taunton-Cardiff circuit.
 

jopsuk

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My understanding is that at the last franchise renewal First chose to continue the Night Riviera, rather than it being included in the specification.
I know there was certainly some horse trading over it- the end of the motorail service* was certainly part of the deal, whether in or out of specification, to retain the sleeper as I remember it.

*friday nights both directions, Paddington-Penzance only at the end.
 

TEW

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Motorail had been gone for a while, the thing that was lost was the Plymouth sleeper carriage which used to be detached/attached at Plymouth.
 

Sleepy

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Hi guys how many seated coaches are in the rake on normal nights now (not incl. buffet /lounge car) ?
TIA
 

MattRobinson

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Running one 57 on the back dead for 300 miles each night is probably going to cause some nice wheelflats as well

Why? Surely the wheels still rotate, meaning that the wheels are worn equally all the way around their circumference?

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2
 

TEW

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Hi guys how many seated coaches are in the rake on normal nights now (not incl. buffet /lounge car) ?
TIA

2 carriages, A with the guards area in should have dim lighting and B normally has full lighting.
 

tsr

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2 carriages, A with the guards area in should have dim lighting and B normally has full lighting.

Why is the guard's area in the carriage with dim lighting? Surely this means there is less space for passengers who prefer to sleep under dimmer light (which is surely the overriding preference) as opposed to having it in the brightly lit carriage, where one would assume fewer people would want to be? Also, isn't the guard more likely to accidentally disturb those who want to sleep in the dimmed section if his/her compartment is there? Maybe I am wrong about this, so please correct me if so. I assume a mitigating factor would be that if the dimmed carriage is at the end of the train, so fewer people are walking through anyway, having the guard's area there - and perhaps in the direction of the middle of train but in that carriage - would not be such a problem.
 

455driver

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Why is the guard's area in the carriage with dim lighting?

Because it has the guards office and the cycle storage area behind that, having it at the end means that people dont have to walk through to get to the buffet.
 
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