Paisley Canal Electrification

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p123

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Just in case anyone hasn't seen this... it crept up on us and kept away from 'national 'media:

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/12m-project-will-get-electric-trains-on-track.18076232

Interesting how ScotRail are giving up their right to compensation payments for service disruption. Also have to wonder if giving up that right is indefinite or if it lasts x number of years following completion of the work.

Also... quite a while ago someone on here (whose name I cannot remember) posted they saw vegetation clearance on that line and stated that they thought electrification would occur soon. I replied that vegetation clearance was happening all over Glasgow and on lines already electrified in preparation for the forthcoming leaf fall season. Well, sir, I apologise for my clearly incorrect statement and salute your predictive powers!
 
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rail-britain

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There isn't likely to be any disruption, the majority of the work should be completed overnight and at some weekends
Why would there be disruption several years after completion?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Just in case anyone hasn't seen this... it crept up on us and kept away from 'national 'media:
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/12m-project-will-get-electric-trains-on-track.18076232

David Higgins let it drop during evidence he was giving to the Transport Select Committee on 19 June, as an example of McNulty cost reductions (putting neutral sections under bridges to save lifting them).
He said "by the end of the year", but nobody seemed to pick it up as a new project.
It might therefore be a trial of new electrification techniques on low-speed lines.
 

rail-britain

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David Higgins said "by the end of the year", but nobody seemed to pick it up as a new project
It's not a new project, it has just been brought forward from the Glasgow South electrification project (originally due 2016 to 2020)

It might therefore be a trial of new electrification techniques on low-speed lines
Nothing new, a similar technology has just been used in the Haymarket tunnel, fixed contact wires capable of 50mph
 

Chris125

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Nothing new, a similar technology has just been used in the Haymarket tunnel, fixed contact wires capable of 50mph

According to page 78/9 of the 'Alternative Solutions RUS' they do appear to be trying something new...

"Following the initial assessment which showed the cost of providing standard clearance for
structures would not be feasible, an alternative approach was to consider gauging the OLE
around electric trains that use the route, rather than the UK loading gauge. The alternative
approach being considered is to:
- gauge around electric trains that use the route making use of reduced special clearance
- make use of neutral sections under challenging bridges
- remote earthing to address freight/infrastructure train gauge (UK innovation)."


Apparently there will be physical clearance for a class 66, but not electrical clearance "...so it has been proposed to remotely take isolations, which would allow vehicles where mechanical clearance is possible to operate on the route, without the need for the isolation to be physically earthed locally each time such a train needed to use the line."

Chris
 

Tomnick

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Interesting how ScotRail are giving up their right to compensation payments for service disruption. Also have to wonder if giving up that right is indefinite or if it lasts x number of years following completion of the work.
Presumably they've given up the right to compensation payments that would otherwise be due for engineering access during the electrification works causing changes to services (so, given rail-britain's statement, probably late evenings, early mornings and weekends). Disruption caused by other factors (planned or otherwise) would, I'd guess, still be subject to the usual compensation regime.
 

Railsigns

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No, same techniques different purposes
In the Haymarket tunnel the fixed wire conducts
In the Paisley Canal, the technology will not conduct

Putting a neutral section under a low bridge (such as currently exists at three locations in Scotland) does not necessitate the installation of conductor bar.
 

p123

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There isn't likely to be any disruption, the majority of the work should be completed overnight and at some weekends
Why would there be disruption several years after completion?

I assumed that the article referred to compensation for service disruption due to something that was their fault (e.g. signalling issues etc.) on the line, as opposed to service disruption during the installation of the overhead wires.

I would imagine that no compensation would be paid to ScotRail for the construction work as it'll most likely be carried out on Sundays, when no services run on this line anyway.
 

sdrennan

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I mentioned the electrification project a few months ago when the vegetation clearing started.
My friend had received notification about the electrification

I was beginning to think it had been canned so I am glad it is now going to happen.
I just hope this will eventually lead to the full line to elderslie reopening and doubling some point in the future
 

lancastrian

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I mentioned the electrification project a few months ago when the vegetation clearing started.
My friend had received notification about the electrification

I was beginning to think it had been canned so I am glad it is now going to happen.
I just hope this will eventually lead to the full line to elderslie reopening and doubling some point in the future

While I am in favour of the full canal line route being reopened. I remember reading somewhere that the reason the route was only reopened to Paisley Canal was that in the interim period between the closure of the Kilmalcom services and the reopening, some pillock had allowed someone to block the route by building a large building on the trackbed. This could be a problem in any potential reopening to Elderslie, although I am in favout of such.

When will our politicians stop looking to short term advantage with our railway routes and realise that the track beds NEED preserving intact, so that lines can be reopened as the oil runs out in the nect 23 - 30 years.
 

clc

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While I am in favour of the full canal line route being reopened. I remember reading somewhere that the reason the route was only reopened to Paisley Canal was that in the interim period between the closure of the Kilmalcom services and the reopening, some pillock had allowed someone to block the route by building a large building on the trackbed. This could be a problem in any potential reopening to Elderslie, although I am in favout of such..

From Transport Scotland website:

"There is likely to be more significant land take and the demolition of properties to allow the line between Paisley Canal and Elderslie to be reinstated."
"there may be some local objections to the demolition of properties built on the alignment between Paisley Canal and Elderslie."

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/documents/reports/j10194a/j10194a-a2D27.pdf
 

michael769

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some pillock had allowed someone to block the route by building a large building on the trackbed. This could be a problem in any potential reopening to Elderslie, although I am in favout of such.

It was a Housing Estate that was built. But looking at the satellite view there is IMO still space for a railway line to skirt the estate albiet at the loss of a cycle track and some realignment of Lounsdale Road in Paisley.
 

clc

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It was a Housing Estate that was built. But looking at the satellite view there is IMO still space for a railway line to skirt the estate albiet at the loss of a cycle track and some realignment of Lounsdale Road in Paisley.

Are you talking about a single track line? Network Rail's high level analysis identified that re-opening through to Elderslie would require the route to be double tracked.
 

michael769

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Are you talking about a single track line? Network Rail's high level analysis identified that re-opening through to Elderslie would require the route to be double tracked.

Yes I believe a double track would fit - it is the double tracking that would necessitate realigning Lounsdale Road to create enough space in the area. Basically you would need to put a bridge over the new line (replacing a current footbridge over the cycle track) to link Lounsdale Road to Green Road away from the current junction, and then shift and remodel the current junction (using space currently occupied by a derelict former school). The line would be routed a little to the south west of the original route for a a short distance in that area. If you did not want to move the roads then you would have to have a 1/4 mile single track section. The rest of the route is mostly free of constraints, with just 3 new road bridges required.

Biggest issue would be the objections from the houses that would have a new railway suddenly appear at the end of their back gardens. It also leaves an outstanding question of where the cycle track would be rerouted to.
 

clc

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Yes I believe a double track would fit - it is the double tracking that would necessitate realigning Lounsdale Road to create enough space in the area. Basically you would need to put a bridge over the new line (replacing a current footbridge over the cycle track) to link Lounsdale Road to Green Road away from the current junction, and then shift and remodel the current junction (using space currently occupied by a derelict former school). The line would be routed a little to the south west of the original route for a a short distance in that area. If you did not want to move the roads then you would have to have a 1/4 mile single track section. The rest of the route is mostly free of constraints, with just 3 new road bridges required.

Biggest issue would be the objections from the houses that would have a new railway suddenly appear at the end of their back gardens. It also leaves an outstanding question of where the cycle track would be rerouted to.

Interesting. I lived in that area in the nineties but didn't give much thought to the possibilities at the time. A train station in Meikleriggs might have tempted me out of my car on my commute to Glasgow. Not sure where you'd relocate the cycle/mugging track to though.
 

CarterUSM

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I assumed that the article referred to compensation for service disruption due to something that was their fault (e.g. signalling issues etc.) on the line, as opposed to service disruption during the installation of the overhead wires.

I would imagine that no compensation would be paid to ScotRail for the construction work as it'll most likely be carried out on Sundays, when no services run on this line anyway.



I read on a depot notice, that giving up the compensation was due to the new and "groundbreaking " alliance between the 2 companies, cost effective, efficient and so on.
 
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