Paper Roll Ranger Tickets

[ChrisC]

Sure you can fold the ticket (though folding it in half is insifficient, thirds might just be enough if you are good at getting the folds in the right place, four parts is more likely in practice), but if you do that then it dramatically slows down the process of showing the ticket and means that every time you show the ticket you are subjecting it to a bunch of wear and tear. Bad enough for a regular ticket that is likely to be shown 0-4 times, but seems like a disaster for a ranger/rover/season ticket.

I did this with a 7 day rover ticket and it did get very worn along the folds towards the end of the week. Half way through the week I removed it from the plastic wallet and kept it folded in my ordinary wallet instead because the ink was beginning to wear and smudge.
I think the problem was it was very hot weather and the ticket was beginning to stick to the plastic of the wallet and when I tried to remove it fragments of the ink were sticking to the plastic.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Because the printers and the paper are miles cheaper.

It's also a smart ticket which means we have a whole new toolbox to play with, seasons are available on Smartcards and we're trialing eTickets from two locations. The industry is moving towards zero CCST we can't stand still and be left wiith no ticketing options.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's also a smart ticket which means we have a whole new toolbox to play with

The industry and the DfT can claim that a piece of paper is a "smart ticket" all it likes (and yes I know it's the barcode that makes it a "smart ticket") but I still maintain any passenger told that the piece of flimsy paper they hold is a "smart ticket" they'd think you were pulling their leg!

 

[ABB125]

The industry and the DfT can claim that a piece of paper is a "smart ticket" all it likes (and yes I know it's the barcode that makes it a "smart ticket") but I still maintain any passenger told that the piece of flimsy paper they hold is a "smart ticket" they'd think you were pulling their leg!

Many passengers would consider it to be a "scruffy ticket" by the time they've finished using it!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Indeed but it tracks at Gatelines and when scanned onboard. So much more info is available about these tickets

 

[py_megapixel]

I hate the term "smart ticket" because it's a buzzword. Nothing is "smart" about sticking a thermal-printed barcode on a piece of paper - if you want to describe something as "smart" then it's the backend that ties all of this together - and even then it's questionable. I also worry about the possibility of a member of staff selecting the wrong option when scanning the ticket (as I understand it, they can choose whether or not the passenger is on the last leg of the journey, and if they select the last leg without realising the passenger wishes to break their journey, they may have difficulty getting back into the station to resume their journey).

That said, I am overall in favour of the transition to PRT. Unlike CCST, a roll of thermally-printable paper is a relatively standard thing, and if it can save the industry a significant amount of money by making a change which is, to most passengers and probably even staff, utterly inconsequential, why shouldn't it?

I've never had difficulty fitting one into a pocket or wallet, and once passengers are used to it and every gate is fitted with a barcode scanner, scanning the barcode will actually be quicker than feeding a magstripe ticket through a slot. Plus there's no scope for the gate to "eat" the ticket against the passengers' wishes, which is a bonus for the passenger, if not for whoever is responsible for collecting litter outside the station.

 

[ABB125]

Would it be possible to use paper rolls, but still have the ticket at the card size?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would it be possible to use paper rolls, but still have the ticket at the card size?

That's what SBB do, though admittedly without barcodes. DB too I think for onboard sales (if they still sell anything onboard).

 

[zero]

In 2019 I did a North East 7 day rover and it was issued at York on paper roll, it held up pretty well for a week, but I don't recall that it was checked very often, and many stations not barriered.

Would it be possible to get the ticket reissued at a ticket office if the paper did degrade?

 

[py_megapixel]

In 2019 I did a North East 7 day rover and it was issued at York on paper roll, it held up pretty well for a week, but I don't recall that it was checked very often, and many stations not barriered.

Would it be possible to get the ticket reissued at a ticket office if the paper did degrade?

Season tickets can be replaced if they become so worn that they won't work the barriers any more. Not sure if that extends to rovers though.

 

[robbeech]

Season tickets can be replaced if they become so worn that they won't work the barriers any more. Not sure if that extends to rovers though.

If the technology has the ability to do it (maybe someone can confirm) i would put money on who would do it and who wouldn't.

 

[Starmill]

I think you will find overwhelmingly that a ticket that's not a season ticket is unlikely to be replaced because it has worn out.

 

[Clip]

I can already hear the allegations of fraud coming from an RPI who suspects its a fake ticket, especially if it's a high value season or an ALR.

A readable QR code would soon put paid to that especially for such a niche and expensive product.

Are those plastic sticky things still a 'thing'? I can't remember the last time I saw one of of those round my way and I use the bus regularly.

No idea they were round here but now i just use the app now

 

[Haywain]

If the technology has the ability to do it (maybe someone can confirm) i would put money on who would do it and who wouldn't.

It’s not a facility that’s available for rovers, and probably wouldn’t be for seasons if they hadn’t been on CCST.

 

[py_megapixel]

It’s not a facility that’s available for rovers

Why on earth not? Some rovers can last as long as season tickets, and the nature of a rover is that they'll probably be used quite a lot which means a lot of taking in and out of pockets/bags/wallets and feeding through gates - exactly the kind of things which damage them.

 

[Haywain]

Why on earth not? Some rovers can last as long as season tickets, and the nature of a rover is that they'll probably be used quite a lot which means a lot of taking in and out of pockets/bags/wallets and feeding through gates - exactly the kind of things which damage them.

I don’t know but I would guess that it’s because a) rovers are a niche product sold in tiny numbers compared to season tickets, and b) the holders of rovers tend to take much greater care of them than the average season ticket holder.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Rover last what two weeks tops, seasons last up to a year.

 

[RPI]

Are people forgetting just how unreliable CCST tickets are for not having the magstripe scrambled as soon as it goes near anything remotely magnetic? The Devon County Council Scholar passes are a prime example, still printed on CCST and within a week of each new term about 75% of them will no longer operate the gates. I would prefer theough if the PRT tickets were smaller, there is no need to be as big as they are, would also save more money too as it would use less paper!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are people forgetting just how unreliable CCST tickets are for not having the magstripe scrambled as soon as it goes near anything remotely magnetic? The Devon County Council Scholar passes are a prime example, still printed on CCST and within a week of each new term about 75% of them will no longer operate the gates. I would prefer theough if the PRT tickets were smaller, there is no need to be as big as they are, would also save more money too as it would use less paper!

You wouldn't need to make them much smaller to make them useful. Credit card size clearly has its uses, but most people have a wallet with a slot that will take £20 notes even if they no longer carry cash, so making them the size of a £20 note would be helpful.

 

[ABB125]

You wouldn't need to make them much smaller to make them useful. Credit card size clearly has its uses, but most people have a wallet with a slot that will take £20 notes even if they no longer carry cash, so making them the size of a £20 note would be helpful.

My (money) wallet is a ticket wallet! So no good for me, unfortunately. Perhaps, if more space is needed, a "2x CCST" size paper ticket should be issued, which can be easily folded in half (ie: doing so won't destroy any of the printing, because it's been deliberately spaced for this purpose) to be the same size as a CCST ticket?

 

[island]

That's what SBB do, though admittedly without barcodes. DB too I think for onboard sales (if they still sell anything onboard).

At the risk of going off-topic, on-board sales on SNCB/NMBS (and even penalty fares) are issued as disposable smartcards that are not printed on

 

[BluePenguin]

Indeed but it tracks at Gatelines and when scanned onboard. So much more info is available about these tickets

Information we really don’t want you to have to be honest

 

[MikeWh]

Information we really don’t want you to have to be honest

Why not? If it facilitates continued availability of break of journey and limits opportunities for re-use then I'm all for it.

 

[paul1609]

Are those plastic sticky things still a 'thing'? I can't remember the last time I saw one of of those round my way and I use the bus regularly.

Still used for the Discovery all operator tickets in Kent

 

[Wolfie]

I wouldn’t try this. They’re printed on thermal roll so would go black under the heat of the laminator.

Not sure about these but found out the hard way (my Annual Season Ticket!) that thermally printed credit card tickets and certain hand sanitisers really don't combine well....

Could always just nip into Smiths (other stationary retailers are available) & get some plastic wallets. If not, would it be accepted if you laminate it.

Why should the customer have to incur extra cost due to the rail industry's penny pinching. How about they adopt systems fully fit for purpose instead?

I have no objection to modernisation or change. I do object to that modernisation taking a format (credit card sized tickets) which works extremely well, has done so for many years, is robust, has plenty of options for protecting it for longer term use (ticket wallets), fits conveniently in things that people tend to carry around (wallets/purses/etc) and replacing it with something that is considerably flimsier, less well wearing, does not fit in your average purse/wallet without folding (further wearing it out) and to fit in a ticket wallet requires the use of origami style folding (which then also makes it harder to display when asked). The excuse that these are "smart tickets" (try telling that to the average passenger and see if they don't think you're pulling their leg) because they have a barcode falls flat on its face when LNER were happily selling card tickets with barcodes for donkeys years.

The reality is that an opportunity was soon to cut costs (at the expense of passenger experience) and was taken. That's a reasonable decision to be made in an industry which has enormous costs but let's not try and pretend that it's anything other than cost cutting or somehow better or the same as what was in place before.

Exactly

I think you will find overwhelmingly that a ticket that's not a season ticket is unlikely to be replaced because it has worn out.

If the rail industry chooses to issue tickets valid for an extended period using a cheapo crap media which degrades easily and then refuses to replace them within their validity it better expect legal action to follow should anyone face consequent losses.

 

[35B]

A CCST isn't large enough to carry the correct type of barcode and enough info to make it readable by eye.

From another thread, perhaps the answer to this IMHO retrograde step.

 

[johncrossley]

Why not sell these tickets as e-tickets? Then you don't need any paper or card.

 

[Cdd89]

My only praise for mag stripe tickets is that it is very obvious how to insert them into barriers. Most passengers can do it in seconds with zero training. Not so with barcode readers where you see people fumbling around, which sometimes means a queue when getting off a train.

The important part isn’t even the magnetic stripe, it’s the intuitive slot that consumes and reads the ticket. That could work with barcode tickets too, as long as they were consistent size and format. But of course that machinery is the expensive element this is being sought to remove, at the expense of the passenger experience.

 

[Starmill]

Why not sell these tickets as e-tickets? Then you don't need any paper or card.

Some ticket offices have been issuing etickets for several years, yes. Obviously that's not any improvement if the customer doesn't have a suitable device.

 

[Haywain]

Most passengers can do it in seconds with zero training.

You haven't watched enough passengers!

That could work with barcode tickets too, as long as they were consistent size and format.

If only barcodes were used elsewhere in modern life...