Paperless rail tickets across UK by 2019 - Chris Grayling

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by thenorthern, 2 Oct 2017.

  1. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    'Smart technology' as I recall from numerous DfT announcements (such as franchise specs) still includes contactless cards. I bet there's no evidence that the DfT see smartphones as the only future, just typical Railway Magazine wibble...
     
  2. sefton

    sefton Member

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    Actually that seems to be a really good idea to invoke that and drive up revenue.
     
  3. GW43125

    GW43125 Established Member

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    I am one of said "younger people, more happy with digital technology", however I'd still much rather have paper than an m-ticket. Mobile tickets have many points of failure, the most common probably being the phone running out of battery. I'd rather have a piece of paper that says I can get home than worrying if my phone will make it. I speak from the experience of holding up the queue in a well-known sandwich shop due to my phone-based loyalty card playing up.
     
  4. B&I

    B&I Established Member

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    And will every seat in every train have a power point to enable the smartphone to be kept on for long enough to display the ticket at the end of the average working day?
     
  5. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    I'm guessing this is trying to press the false argument of Smart Phone = Small Battery Life? If so, it's incorrect. There are many inexpensive smart phones of which mine is one, it can handle a mobile ticket if needed and if used how I normally do (no interest in games/videos/web browsing) then the battery easily lasts 6-7 days.

    By all means don't move with the times, but these silly counter arguments don't work.
     
  6. B&I

    B&I Established Member

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    I frequently need to use my mobile phone during the working day. Usually the battery is flat after about 8 hours of moderate use. I have to carry an external battery to keep it going. So, in order to.allow the railway companies to save some unspecified amount, I have to.pay not only for a smartphone, but also a battery to keep it going. I can afford both. A lot of rail users probably can't afford either. Does this seem to you fair, or a way of encouraging more rail use?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 2 Jan 2018
  7. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    You’ve incorrectly extrapolated that the only way train companies will implement smart ticketing is via mobile tickets. That’s not the case. There are other media available.
     
  8. Tom lynch

    Tom lynch New Member

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    In defence of E-tickets, I think both they and paper tickets have a part to play.

    A week ago on Friday I got to my local station on my way home to London for Christmas, only to discover on one TVM was broken, and the other's card machine wasn't working. Without sufficient cash on me I was faced with the unpleasant task of walking to the nearby high street in search of a cash machine.

    Luckily I remembered hearing about how Chiltern were now doing E-tickets, so in the 5 minute window before my train arrived I was able to download the Trainline app, buy the E-ticket for the same price as usual with railcard discount. This saved me from a likely 1/2 hour + delay.

    Also TfL still offer paper tickets, for those who want the option.
     
  9. sefton

    sefton Member

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    No smartphone I have ever owned has ever run out of battery, but if it is a question of surfing that website or being able to get the train home... well make choice, it isn't hard.
     
  10. NorthernSpirit

    NorthernSpirit On Moderation

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    I prefer paper tickets, as you have physical proof that you have both paid for and in the event of a servere delay can claim back the cost of travelling. On a so called "smartphone" that isn't possible.

    Pen and paper will always win over digital technology, just think a paper ticket doesn't need to be charged up.
     
  11. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    Some forms of smart ticketing don’t need to be charged up either.

    You can claim delay repay on a mobile ticket; it’s incorrect to suggest you cannot.
     
  12. DenmarkRail

    DenmarkRail Member

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    Always use 'Wallet (Apple)' tickets on flights, and started using them on iPhone on my Stafford to Havant trip, and since then haven't used a paper one.

    Works wonders, and hopefully, sometime soon, paper tickets will have a premium on them, to discourage purchase of paper tickets.
     
  13. Via Bank

    Via Bank Member

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    There is no reason at all that single-use tickets could not be sold on disposable smartcards as in the Netherlands, or as Aztec codes printed on tough paper or card. This way you can at least eliminate the dreadful magstripe technology and minimise the number of moving parts in the ticket gates.
     
  14. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    So I'm supposed to sacrifice my ability to surf the web, just so the railway can save a small amount of money on paper ticketing.
     
  15. mervyn72

    mervyn72 Member

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    It's simple in my opinion. On the TVM you could be asked to have your tickets printed on paper or sent direct to your phone. If choosing direct to phone you can either enter your number and recieve the text or hold your phone to data transfer pad (android/apple pay). Same could be done at ticket desks and online.

    In terms of delay repay, the ticket should come with a link to press that takes you straight to the necessary page to submit your claim with the tickets automatically attached.

    On board trains, the guard/rpo should have a qr scanning device which makes a nice happy sound if ticket valid and a menacing one if not (think family fortunes).

    Considering the tech available nowadays, the railway does seem slow in embracing it and rolling it out. Imo
     
  16. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    What puzzles me (another dinosaur) is where is the e-ticket stored on a smartphone. Do you have to go back into the website where you bought it? People seem to be able to show their phones to the guard instantly, so either they have already got it open at the right place, or there's some sort of quick access off the home screen? This is the main reason I haven't ventured into this type of ticket yet.
     
  17. B&I

    B&I Established Member

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    What smartcard is there for someone like me, who travels countrywide by train, rather than just within one PTE / franchise area?
     
  18. JetStream

    JetStream Member

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    To be honest, given the choice of an M-Ticket or the new, huge paper tickets, I'd take the former every single time.
     
  19. JetStream

    JetStream Member

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    No, so you can save some money via an M-Ticket.

    As far as I'm aware, noone has suggested scrapping paper tickets completely.
     
  20. WelshBluebird

    WelshBluebird Established Member

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    Ummm, isn't that the title of this thread!
     
  21. JetStream

    JetStream Member

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    "It then went on to say a system will remain in place to cover those who have a problem with that, or words to that effect."
     
  22. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    There isn’t one yet. That doesn’t mean there won’t be. Clearly the railway is not going to be daft enough to make everyone purchase tickets via mobile phones and display them through the same media, as this would disenfranchise a minority of farepayers whose money they’d rather like to have.
     
  23. JaJaWa

    JaJaWa Established Member

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    You could have got on the train and paid at the destination.
     
  24. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    Yes, but don’t stop the Smart ticketing alarmist bandwagon in full flight, it’s heavy as there are a lot of posters on it.
     
  25. WelshBluebird

    WelshBluebird Established Member

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    You have more faith than I do then! Since this is the same industry that has just messed around cross london passengers by rolling out a new ticket format that cannot be used for such journeys (which also has slowed down going through gateline barriers at some stations because the QR codes take longer to accurately scan than passing the ticket through the barrier did), the same industry that has managed to make a huge mess of the introduction of smart cards, the same industry that has rolled out a new ticket design without properly training all the staff that need to be trained, etc etc. I do not have any faith at all that the industry will get the move to reduce the use of paper tickets correct. So apologies but I will retain my skepticism until the industry actually proves it can properly deal with these things.
     
    Last edited: 2 Jan 2018
  26. Master29

    Master29 Established Member

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    Precisely the point. You say make a choice but some of us dinosaurs and many young don`t have luxury do they. Also. have you not thought about the disability implications. Not every autistic person is Rain Man or Bill Gates you know, and that`s but the tip of the iceberg. No, there should be a choice of course, and as for premiums; God preserve us from the Orwellian state.
     
  27. Master29

    Master29 Established Member

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    OK I missed the part where it says about measures being in place for certain groups of people, so appologies there. I Would be interested to see what those conditions are and whether non smartphone users will get stung or not.
     
  28. SteveP29

    SteveP29 Member

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    Your ticket will come as an attachment in the confirmation email.
    I went to see the Tampa Bay Lightning v Winnipeg Jets NHL game and Tampa Bay Buccaneers v Detroit Lions last month when I was in Florida.
    The tickets were bought through Ticketmaster and you didn't get a paper ticket.
    The confirmation email gave you a link to the ticket which had a QR code on it.
    Rather than have to look for the tickets when we arrived at the games, I screenshotted (is that a word???) the tickets before we left our accommodation and kept the Gallery app on my phone open (I should say, keep the app running in the background, not open, sorry) so that I just had to unlock my phone
     
    Last edited: 2 Jan 2018
  29. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    Cheers Steve, that makes sense.
     
  30. SteveP29

    SteveP29 Member

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    My Newcastle United season ticket is a smart card.
    that ticket only entitles me to entry to league games.
    When I buy cup tickets, the ticket is loaded onto my card.
    I have nothing else to do except turn up at St James Park and put my card into the reader, if I have a ticket for that game, I get a green light, if not, the orange light comes on and I then need to visit the ticket office.

    I'd like a similar system for my train travel, my journeys, booked online, or at the ticket office are loaded onto the card and a confirmation sent to my email address or to my account on a co-existing app (this gives me a reminder of what time, which station and which TOC I'm travelling with, and also a backup in case the card or the reader fails during the journey)
    I suspect it will be difficult to do, but possible
     

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