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Paris - Pass Navigo & other Île-de-France questions

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CC 72100

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Hi,

I'm going to be working as an intern in Paris for 7 months, so will be commuting into central Paris (Bastille) from just outside Paris, in zone 3, everyday. Obviously the Navigo pass (zones 1-3) is the best way of doing it, but I've just got a few queries that I'm wondering whether anyone with experience of them on here could help me with...

1) Applying/ Living in the region

I understand that you can only apply online and have it delivered to your address if you live within the Île-de-France region. If you don't you have to fill in a paper form from a RATP office. (of which there seem to be several types, am I right in thinking not all can do this?) I will be living in the region, and do have an address (although move out in 4 weeks time) - would it be best to apply online and have it there waiting for me, or to fill in and hand back the paper form?

2) Attestion de l'employeur (point 1.6 on this document: http://www.stif.org/IMG/pdf/CGU_du_passe_Navigo.pdf)

I've seen some references on the Navigo website to getting your employer to fill out an 'attestion' relating to working in the IdF region... does anyone know in which circumstances this is required?

3) Dézonage + use on non Réseau Île-de-France transport

I believe that as a zone 1-3 monthly navigo subscription holder, on bank holidays and at weekends, my ticket becomes 'all zones' at no extra cost. Does this happen automatically, or if not, how? Also, I see on the FAQ on the Navigo website, (https://rechargercommandernavigo.fr/962b56fa-b455-11e1b5b5-000c29fc784d/content.prepareFAQ2.do) that I am also valid on TER and Intercités service within the region. However, there seems to be little information about that from a google search, so if anyone could confirm whether/ how this works in practice, that would be great!

And one for the enthusiast in me...

4) Loco-hauled in Île-de-France

I understand that some Transillien lines are in fact loco + stock. In particular, line P has the un-electrified Provins and La Ferté Milon branches, which seem to be diesel loco + stock during the week. Is this still the case at weekends, when I'd have the time and be valid on these services in zone 5? (providing Dézonage works as described in question 3) Any particular lines that people would recommend/ avoid?

Thanks in advance. If you can only answer one of my questions, then don't worry, all contributions are welcome! :)
 
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Peter Mugridge

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Re: 4) I don't know about that particular route, but there are loco hauled suburbans off St Lazare and Montparnasse all the time.

From Montparnasse you may still also find some ancent stainless steel Z5300 EMUs; worth a ride before they vanish.

Off St Lazare, especially via La defense, is the Z6400 class of EMUs - these are fantastically noisy as long as you ride in the DMs.

On RER Line A, the old MS61 Stock units are also worth a ride - they have particularly musical motors, best enjoyed off peak ( fast running! ) in the long tunnel from La Defense towards Etoile. Try being in the leading part of the 3rd from last carriage with the windows open.
 

87015

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As far as I am aware the only diesel loco hauled (67400) Transilien services are two peak only diagrams from Paris Est to La Ferte Miltom which are pure one journey only peak workings. There are some other 67400 turns out of Paris Nord which are TER but stop in the Transilien zonal area - can provide further info if you can get any confirmed ticket info.

From a quick think Nord, Est, Austerlitz and Lyon, Montparnasse and San Lazare should all be doable loco hauled on the 'travelcard' equivalent although some only have a few services. If in doubt Montparnasse has 5tph Transilien hauled off-peak, 10tph off peak at San Lazare!

May be able to get some ideas from what nedding I have done, not all but a lot of these phots are around the Paris area http://87015aewn.wordpress.com/category/euro-nedding/france/
 
Last edited:

Picasso

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Marly le Roi (France)
Hello,

I'm going to try to give you the suitable answers

Hi,

I'm going to be working as an intern in Paris for 7 months, so will be commuting into central Paris (Bastille) from just outside Paris, in zone 3, everyday. Obviously the Navigo pass (zones 1-3) is the best way of doing it, but I've just got a few queries that I'm wondering whether anyone with experience of them on here could help me with...

1) Applying/ Living in the region

I understand that you can only apply online and have it delivered to your address if you live within the Île-de-France region. If you don't you have to fill in a paper form from a RATP office. (of which there seem to be several types, am I right in thinking not all can do this?) I will be living in the region, and do have an address (although move out in 4 weeks time) - would it be best to apply online and have it there waiting for me, or to fill in and hand back the paper form?
I think the easyest way to buy a Pass Navigo, is to go to one of the "Agence Commerciale", sometimes called "Le Club" of the RATP. You may find their location here. You will be queuing for 5 or 10 minutes, and then it will take 5 minutes to create your pass Navigo. They will take a photo of you themselves. I experienced this last week at gare du Nord with a Chinese friend who doesn't speak French enough, and the RATP man has been very helpful.

2) Attestion de l'employeur (point 1.6 on this document: http://www.stif.org/IMG/pdf/CGU_du_passe_Navigo.pdf)

I've seen some references on the Navigo website to getting your employer to fill out an 'attestion' relating to working in the IdF region... does anyone know in which circumstances this is required?
Not aware of this. The pass navigo is for everybody, no need to justify of a job. But employers must refund employees of 50% of the pass price. So, keep your receipt each month after you have paid the monthly pass. You will have to provide the justification to your employer to be refunded of 50%.

3) Dézonage + use on non Réseau Île-de-France transport

I believe that as a zone 1-3 monthly navigo subscription holder, on bank holidays and at weekends, my ticket becomes 'all zones' at no extra cost. Does this happen automatically, or if not, how? Also, I see on the FAQ on the Navigo website, (https://rechargercommandernavigo.fr/962b56fa-b455-11e1b5b5-000c29fc784d/content.prepareFAQ2.do) that I am also valid on TER and Intercités service within the region. However, there seems to be little information about that from a google search, so if anyone could confirm whether/ how this works in practice, that would be great!
Your assumption about the "dézonage" is quite true, this is relatively recent. On Bank holidays, as well as week-ends and from the 13th of July until the 18th of August (2013), Pass Navigo allow their holder to take transports for free from zone 1 (Paris) to zone 5. The principle is very easy : you want to travel from A to B, if A and B are located within the five zones of Ile de France, your Pass Navigo is valid, regardless of the train category. TGV's and TEOZ trains are of course excluded, but they don't have stops in Ile de France, except Paris stations ;). Otherwise, if B is located outside of Ile de France, it is not valid. Here is a map of transports in Ile de France, with the 5 zones.

And one for the enthusiast in me...

4) Loco-hauled in Île-de-France

I understand that some Transillien lines are in fact loco + stock. In particular, line P has the un-electrified Provins and La Ferté Milon branches, which seem to be diesel loco + stock during the week. Is this still the case at weekends, when I'd have the time and be valid on these services in zone 5? (providing Dézonage works as described in question 3) Any particular lines that people would recommend/ avoid?

Thanks in advance. If you can only answer one of my questions, then don't worry, all contributions are welcome! :)
I don't know if there are still diesel loco-hauled trains on La Ferté-Milon and Provins lines. Maybe during peak hours (monday-friday, morning and evening) on La Ferté-Milon (BB 67400 loco and refurbished stainless steel sets). I think all trains to Provins are bi-mode electro-diesel Bombardier railcars (AGC)
otherwise there are frequent push-pull loco hauled on Montparnasse and St Lazare suburb services (electric locos BB 27300, still old BB 17000 at St Lazare, and BB 7600 on Montpranasse).

Regards

Éric
 

CC 72100

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3,776
Thanks for the responses so far:

Re: 4) I don't know about that particular route, but there are loco hauled suburbans off St Lazare and Montparnasse all the time.

From Montparnasse you may still also find some ancent stainless steel Z5300 EMUs; worth a ride before they vanish.

Off St Lazare, especially via La defense, is the Z6400 class of EMUs - these are fantastically noisy as long as you ride in the DMs.

On RER Line A, the old MS61 Stock units are also worth a ride - they have particularly musical motors, best enjoyed off peak ( fast running! ) in the long tunnel from La Defense towards Etoile. Try being in the leading part of the 3rd from last carriage with the windows open.

I've got a feeling that last of the Z5300s have gone now, I think I remember reading a feature on them on one of the RER line's blog. RER A (Boissy branch) will be my local commute into Paris, and I've noticed more of the MS61 stock on this branch with the 09 and other double-deck stock on the Marne la Valée branch.

As far as I am aware the only diesel loco hauled (67400) Transilien services are two peak only diagrams from Paris Est to La Ferte Miltom which are pure one journey only peak workings. There are some other 67400 turns out of Paris Nord which are TER but stop in the Transilien zonal area - can provide further info if you can get any confirmed ticket info.

From a quick think Nord, Est, Austerlitz and Lyon, Montparnasse and San Lazare should all be doable loco hauled on the 'travelcard' equivalent although some only have a few services. If in doubt Montparnasse has 5tph Transilien hauled off-peak, 10tph off peak at San Lazare!

May be able to get some ideas from what nedding I have done, not all but a lot of these phots are around the Paris area http://87015aewn.wordpress.com/category/euro-nedding/france/

Thanks for this - I had stumbled across your website before whilst reading about the Paris Est - Belfort loco hauled. I think I'll most likely be on a zone 1-3, although all zones at weekends and other dézonage periods, so if (as Picasso has said below) it is valid on TER + Intercités services, then info on any of the loco-hauled that stop in the IdF region would be great :)

I think the easyest way to buy a Pass Navigo, is to go to one of the "Agence Commerciale", sometimes called "Le Club" of the RATP. You may find their location here. You will be queuing for 5 or 10 minutes, and then it will take 5 minutes to create your pass Navigo. They will take a photo of you themselves. I experienced this last week at gare du Nord with a Chinese friend who doesn't speak French enough, and the RATP man has been very helpful.

That sounds very much an easier way to do it. Do you have to fill out any forms for this (on the spot or beforehand), or do you literally just go and ask for one?

But employers must refund employees of 50% of the pass price. So, keep your receipt each month after you have paid the monthly pass. You will have to provide the justification to your employer to be refunded of 50%.

Thanks for clearing this up - I'd seen references to it, but wasn't quite sure how it worked in practice. Would this apply to me as just a stagiare (intern), or is it something that only 'full' workers can benefit from?

Thanks also for the dézonage explanation. That's also probably the best map i've seen of the network, hopefully a paper copy will be available at ticket offices.

I know that the metro and RER stations are gated, with a navigo reader on them, but do you have to stamp (composter) the pass in some way before using Transillien/ RER/ Intercités services? (Although I wouldn't want a hole punched in the card!)

I don't know if there are still diesel loco-hauled trains on La Ferté-Milon and Provins lines. Maybe during peak hours (monday-friday, morning and evening) on La Ferté-Milon (BB 67400 loco and refurbished stainless steel sets). I think all trains to Provins are bi-mode electro-diesel Bombardier railcars (AGC)
otherwise there are frequent push-pull loco hauled on Montparnasse and St Lazare suburb services (electric locos BB 27300, still old BB 17000 at St Lazare, and BB 7600 on Montpranasse).

Sounds like there will be plenty to keep me occupied, thanks :)
 

Peter Mugridge

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I've got a feeling that last of the Z5300s have gone now, I think I remember reading a feature on them on one of the RER line's blog.

They certainly vanished from RER C some years back, but as recently as two years ago some 50% of all the stopping services off Montparnasse via Meudon / Versailles were still Z5300, the other 50% being loco hauled. If they have indeed now vanished from even this that will be a great pity.
 

87015

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Armed with that map, I am aware of the following loco hauled services you should be valid on within zones 1-5, I'd recommend joining up to European Rail Gen yahoo group where there are some diagrams and other reports which will be of use. There is probably much more than this as well - especially from Austerlitz/Lyon/Bercy which I've only really passed through.

7200s - TERs from Montparnasse (peak only) to Chartres/Le Mans, from Austerlitz on the stopping TERs to Orleans (limited 7 day service) and from Gare de Lyon on the two hourly TERs to Laroche M (recommended, load 10 Corail shove sets) All booked 7200 but semi-regular 22200 or even 26000 substitution. Most diagrams on ERG.
7600s - Montparnasse to Rambouillet services all day
8500s - TER services from Montparnasse to Chartres/Le Mans. Majority in peak hours but some off peak and weekend working also.
15000s - some services from St Lazare to Rouen/Caen stop at Mantes Le Jolie. More diagrams in peak but some daytime and weekend turns.
17000s - work out of St Laxare all day, also Pontoise-Creil line. Peak work on Est - Meaux services also sporadic work out of Nord mainly on Crepy services again mainly in the peaks as lots of turns have been lost to the new pink and white units.
27300s - countless services from Montparnasse and St Lazare all day
67400s - peak hour Transilien workings from Est to Le Ferte and limited daytime, peak and weekend TER services from Nord which are mainly Laon trains. There are diagrams for the TER turns ERG.

There is a half decent Sunday move on the 0802 to Le Tréport out of Nord (67400) as this stops at Persan Beaunont and drops you onto the Creil-Pontoise line, from Pontoise there is 2tph hauled into St Lazare. It's a shame Creil is just outside the zones as that would allow more mainline moves...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They certainly vanished from RER C some years back, but as recently as two years ago some 50% of all the stopping services off Montparnasse via Meudon / Versailles were still Z5300, the other 50% being loco hauled. If they have indeed now vanished from even this that will be a great pity.
When I was there in May all the daytime trains were loco hauled with the units doing peak hours only short workings, when the main services run fast towards Sevees or Versailles rather than all stops.
 
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CC 72100

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They certainly vanished from RER C some years back, but as recently as two years ago some 50% of all the stopping services off Montparnasse via Meudon / Versailles were still Z5300, the other 50% being loco hauled. If they have indeed now vanished from even this that will be a great pity.

I was completely wrong on that front, just done a bit of research and it would seem that they still operate, according to wikipedia (French) the following services:


(RER) (D) Juvisy - Melun (missions JOPA/ZOPO)

Transilien Ligne R du Transilien Melun - Montereau via Héricy (missions KOHO/ZOHA)

Transilien Ligne N du Transilien Paris-Montparnasse - Sèvres-Rive-Gauche (missions SOPI/POSI)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Armed with that map, I am aware of the following loco hauled services you should be valid on within zones 1-5, I'd recommend joining up to European Rail Gen yahoo group where there are some diagrams and other reports which will be of use.....

Thanks for all of the above. I'll join ERG when I get out there. Some of them allow for some quite lengthy runs of half an hour or so, which would be nice. I'll keep an eye out on those diagrams, have a look on ERG, and when I get out there go along myself to Austerlitz, Bercy & Lyon where you've hinted there may be some more. Shame there's no 72100 workings that stop within the area when I'm valid (I think the one rush hour workings stops at Longueville M-F) as they sounded rather loud when I went over there in April.

Thanks again!
 

CC 72100

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To go back to this and just in case anyone uses this for future reference: Obtained a pass Navigo on Wednesday from the ticket office (I think it was a Le Club RATP one) at Gare De Lyon. As Picasso had said, all I had to do was say what I wanted, and they took a photo there and then, there was no other details to fill out.

I understand that they're only given to people who live or work in Ile-de-france* : I think I mentioned it to the woman, but I didn't have to get out any paperwork to prove it. All I had to have with me was a piece of ID: She asked for a passport, but I only had my driving licence (the photocard vareity) on me which was fine.

All was done very quickly and the woman serving me was very friendly indeed.

* Of course if you do not live or work in IdF, then you can have a Navigo Découverte, which is a card you pay 5 euros for and isn't you don't get back any funds loaded onto it if lost.
 

Gordon

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.

Looking back at this thread which I somehow missed first time round.

First point:
'87015' stated "7200 from Austerlitz on the stopping TERs to Orleans (limited 7 day service)."

That is not quite correct. The 7200s work an almost complete hourly (odd exceptions esp weekends) express service stopping only at Paris, Les Aubrais Orleans and Orleans Ville. The stopping TERs to Orleans are the trains that stop at local stations between Etampes and Orleans and are EMU.

The La Ferte Milon 67400 work two peak trains out of Paris pm and back in the morning. Look at my album here for the locos that can be seen at Lizy sur OUrcq which is a LGV Est rescue loco base.

http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/long100


Just on the subject of the 72100s. Don't miss the opportunity to ride behind these locos. It is worth forgetting about Paris regional rovers occasionally and just going for it further afield. I would recommend you pay up for a return trip to Troyes. You will get approx 90 minutes of thrash each way for your money after all.

Looking at the engineering work timetable for weekends this summer you could for example take the 7.42 ex Paris Est Saturday morning, then watch a couple of trains arriving and departing Troyes. There are roadbridge (north) and footbridge (south) viewpoints north and south of the station. (check Google satellite and street view).

Troyes is also a cultural destination with a nice old town, and plenty of cafes for a beer interlude


For all my French and other European photos see:

http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/f125714299

http://gwizz.piwigo.com


.
 
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87015

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.

Looking back at this thread which I somehow missed first time round.

First point:
'87015' stated "7200 from Austerlitz on the stopping TERs to Orleans (limited 7 day service)."

That is not quite correct. The 7200s work an almost complete hourly (odd exceptions esp weekends) express service stopping only at Paris, Les Aubrais Orleans and Orleans Ville. The stopping TERs to Orleans are the trains that stop at local stations between Etampes and Orleans and are EMU.
Is that a recent change then - They were definitely hauled last year when I did them and are in the diagrams for the Dec 2012 timetable and there have been ERG reports of them out this year. Unless the EMU is a summer thing for lower peak loadings?
 

Gordon

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Is that a recent change then - They were definitely hauled last year when I did them and are in the diagrams for the Dec 2012 timetable and there have been ERG reports of them out this year. Unless the EMU is a summer thing for lower peak loadings?


Apologies my response was convoluted (senior moment). In trying to correct your original I ended up saying the wrong thing.

My concern was that you had only listed the limited stopping service and thus you had not noted that fact that all the Paris - Orléans fast services terminating at Orléans are booked for BB7200.
 

CC 72100

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Gordon - Thanks for the tips on Troyes... I think one Saturday, as you've pointed out, I'm just going to have to go for it and venture further afield. I too have heard that Troyes is a place well worth visiting, so when I'm settled a bit more than I'll certainly look to make the trip one weekend. When I've got a little more time on my hands I'll have a look on ERG and try to work out some moves. Will also have a better browse through both yours and 87015's photos at some point too.

Ah - It seems I can't simply view ERG without being a member "You need to be a member to perform this action", take it I have to make an account on yahoo , and then I can see the group? Or do I need to create a yahoo account and then apply/ make a separate one for the group? Hmmmm.
 
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big_dirt

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Gordon - Thanks for the tips on Troyes... I think one Saturday, as you've pointed out, I'm just going to have to go for it and venture further afield. I too have heard that Troyes is a place well worth visiting, so when I'm settled a bit more than I'll certainly look to make the trip one weekend. When I've got a little more time on my hands I'll have a look on ERG and try to work out some moves. Will also have a better browse through both yours and 87015's photos at some point too.

Ah - It seems I can't simply view ERG without being a member "You need to be a member to perform this action", take it I have to make an account on yahoo , and then I can see the group? Or do I need to create a yahoo account and then apply/ make a separate one for the group? Hmmmm.

I am just back from Troyes, although I drove there, and can recommend it for a day trip.
 

CC 72100

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Just a quickie: I notice that on the timetable for the Transillien Line P on Saturdays, there is one Intercites departure from Paris Est (17:12) which calls at Longueville (18:00). The train in question is 'INTERCITÉS Numéro du train :1842'. Is this loco-hauled or a unit?

If it is hauled, I need to work out how to use Intercites services with my Navigo pass - I'd be valid, I just wouldn't be sure where to 'composter', given that i'd have a plastic pass and not a paper/card ticket.

Link to Transillien P timetable: http://www.transilien.com/contents/fr/Docs---PDF/Fiches-horaires/hiver/EPT4-AN13-D35-SD-v02.pdf

Any help appreciated :)
 

87015

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Unit according to the diagrams I am afraid. Hopefully there won't be a problem putting these on here (formatting is a bit shot) and as always with France check for engineering work / general shoulder shrugging on relevant date!

Code:
Saturday
Sa Day 1 Works 8
	1645	Paris Est - Vesoul	09.12 - 12.39
	1842	Vesoul - Paris Est	15.10 - 18.46

Sa Day 2 Works 5
	11640	Troyes - Paris Est	05.09 - 06.46
	1741	Paris Est - Belfort	13.12 - 17.21
	1944	Belfort - Paris Est	18.07 - 22.16

Sa Day 3 Works 10
	1643	Paris Est - Belfort	07.42 - 11.50
	1840	Belfort - Paris Est	13.07 - 17.16

Sa Day 4 Works 6
	1942	Belfort - Paris Est	04.50 - 09.16
	1747	Paris Est - Belfort	16.42 - 21.16

Sa Day 5 Works 4
	11746	Troyes - Paris Est	14.12 - 15.46
	1843	Paris Est - Belfort	18.42 - 22.51

Sa Day 6 Works 1
	1742	Belfort - Paris Est	08.06 - 12.16
	11841	Paris Est - Culmont Chalindrey	18.12 - 21.24

Sa Day 7 Works 9
		Paris Ourcq

Sa Day 8 Works 7
		Paris Ourcq

Sa Day 9 Works 2
		Culmont Chalindrey

Sa Day 10 Works 11
		Culmont Chalindrey

Sa Day 11 Works 3
V1	4383	Culmont Chalindrey - Belfort	05.19 - 06.39
V1	4282	Belfort - Culmont Chalindrey	22.08 - 23.20

Sa Day 12 Works 12
	350009	Troyes - Culmont Chalindrey	00.10 - 01.58
	839820	Culmont Chalindrey - Reims	05.24 - 08.20
	839805	Reims - Dijon	13.11 - 16.41
	14355	Dijon - Reims	18.02 - 21.33
	
 
Sunday
Su Day 1 Works 3
	714016	Culmont Chalindrey - Troyes	12.11 - 13.34
	11746	Troyes - Paris Est	14.12 - 15.46
	11841	Paris Est - Culmont Chalindrey	18.12 - 21.24

Su Day 2 Works 1
	11742	Culmont Chalindrey - Paris Est	06.34 - 09.46
	1749	Paris Est - Belfort	16.42 - 21.09

Su Day 3 Works 11
V1	4383	Culmont Chalindrey - Belfort	05.19 - 06.39
	1840	Belfort - Paris Est	13.07 - 17.16
	11847	Paris Est - Troyes	19.42 - 21.17

Su Day 4 Works 10
	1848	Belfort - Paris Est	16.31 - 20.46

Su Day 5 Works 9
	1643	Paris Est - Belfort	07.42 - 11.57
	1844	Belfort - Paris Est	14.29 - 18.46

Su Day 6 Works 7
	1742	Belfort - Paris Est	08.06 - 12.16
	11943	Paris Est - Troyes	22.12 - 23.47

Su Day 7 Works 6
	1741	Paris Est - Belfort	13.12 - 17.21
	1946	Belfort - Paris Est	17.47 - 22.16

Su Day 8 Works 4
	1843	Paris Est - Belfort	18.42 - 22.51

Su Day 9 Works 5
		Paris Ourcq

Su Day 10 Works 2
	1745	Paris Est - Belfort	15.12 - 19.25
V1	4282	Belfort - Culmont Chalindrey	22.08 - 23.20

Su Day 11 Works 8
		Culmont Chalindrey

Su Day 12 Works 12
	839811	Reims - Dijon	17.33 - 21.04
	750019	Dijon - Culmont Chalindrey	21.33 - 22.21
 

Gordon

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Just a quickie: I notice that on the timetable for the Transillien Line P on Saturdays, there is one Intercites departure from Paris Est (17:12) which calls at Longueville (18:00). The train in question is 'INTERCITÉS Numéro du train :1842'. Is this loco-hauled or a unit?

It is a Culmont Chalindrey stopper. These odd trains stop at Longueville for no partcualr reason (may be 'parliamentary') Generally speaking trains going only as far as Culmont Chalindrey are operated by Bi-Bi electro-diesel units and are not truly 'Intercités sector services (some are classified as Intercités for part of the journey - confusing as ever with the French - who of course are all on strike at the moment anyway!)
 

CC 72100

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Unit according to the diagrams I am afraid. Hopefully there won't be a problem putting these on here (formatting is a bit shot) and as always with France check for engineering work / general shoulder shrugging on relevant date!

Thanks for those. Is that from ERG by any chance? - I really need to get round to creating a yahoo account so that I can join the group. I actually did see the 17:12 on Saturday as I was on my way back from Provins - It passed us at either Mormant or Nangis (can't remember which) and was most certainly a unit. I have to say for a passenger perspective I was quite impressed with the bi-mode units, the ride seemed smooth in both modes, and I had a nice table of 4 at the front!

Did see a 72100 pass us at Longueville - I believe that it would have been the 13:12 departure, judging by how it passed us whilst waiting to go on the Provins branch at around 13:50. Just as loud as I remembered them to be in April ;)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It is a Culmont Chalindrey stopper. These odd trains stop at Longueville for no partcualr reason (may be 'parliamentary') Generally speaking trains going only as far as Culmont Chalindrey are operated by Bi-Bi electro-diesel units and are not truly 'Intercités sector services (some are classified as Intercités for part of the journey - confusing as ever with the French - who of course are all on strike at the moment anyway!)

Sorry for late response - I meant to reply to both posts last night but my internet connection had other ideas :roll:

I'll take note of the final destination of trains - i'd like to think that Belfort is a safe bet for being loco-hauled, that on a unit wouldn't be fun!

Wasn't caught up in the strike myself, from what I gather it resulted in either 1/3 or 2/3rds of trains cancelled on some RER and Transilien lines. However, my commute is RER A and then Metro line 1, so us over here on the RATP side of things were nicely unaffected. In fact, I think yesterday was one of the smoothest commutes yet - i'm fairly used to sitting 'à quai' with an automated announcement about the train being held on my home, after finally getting a train towards Boissy with the previous 3 having all gone towards Marne La Valée.... so in other words, yes I am turning to a moaning commuter!
 

Gordon

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Is that from ERG by any chance?

I'll take note of the final destination of trains - I’d like to think that Belfort is a safe bet for being loco-hauled, that on a unit wouldn't be fun!

Wasn't caught up in the strike myself

Yes, the destination of the train is key. I seldom use the actual diagrams for Line 4* myself as rule of thumb works in most cases.

The rule of thumb is:

Long distance trains Paris – Belfort (some terminate short at Vesoul) are 72100 + corail stock. These trains generally call only at Vesoul, Chaumont, Troyes and Paris Est
Semi fast services terminating at Culmont Chalindrey are BiBi units

The exceptions to the rule are
Some Troyes Paris – and Paris – Troyes services at the busiest times to cater for long distance commuting are 72100
The odd Culmont Chalindrey stopper is still loco hauled partly to get 72100s to Chalindrey depot and partly to cover the busiest commuter /weekend services.

A far as the strike is concerned, there is nowadays a guaranteed minimum service level that must legally be provided on strike days.




* Line 4 is the common term for the Paris - Troyes - Belfort line. The Est railway numbered all their lines, starting with the most important - Line 1 Paris - Strasbourg


.
 

CC 72100

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The rule of thumb is:

Long distance trains Paris – Belfort (some terminate short at Vesoul) are 72100 + corail stock. These trains generally call only at Vesoul, Chaumont, Troyes and Paris Est
Semi fast services terminating at Culmont Chalindrey are BiBi units

The exceptions to the rule are
Some Troyes Paris – and Paris – Troyes services at the busiest times to cater for long distance commuting are 72100
The odd Culmont Chalindrey stopper is still loco hauled partly to get 72100s to Chalindrey depot and partly to cover the busiest commuter /weekend services.

A far as the strike is concerned, there is nowadays a guaranteed minimum service level that must legally be provided on strike days.

* Line 4 is the common term for the Paris - Troyes - Belfort line. The Est railway numbered all their lines, starting with the most important - Line 1 Paris - Strasbourg.

All sounds fairly logical to me... i'd be interested to know how much the French 'do' long-distance commuting - everyday on my way to work I expect a lot of people to get on at Gare de Lyon, but it's never the case, in fact when I'm on there (Nation -> Bastille), Gare de Lyon is the quietest stop.

As for the minimum service level, I'd dread to see what the RER A would be like with only 2/3rds of trains.. half of the station had to let a train leave Friday morning as there was no more space to get on, thankfully I can bus it or take a 25 minute walk to Chateau de Vincennes metro station for the inevitable really bad mornings!
 

Gordon

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A certain amount of long distance commuting takes place on a weekly basis, so Monday peak and Friday peak are busier than mid week peaks. I have certainly witnessed daily long distance commuting at first hand on the Troyes trains, and also on the loco hauled peak period Laon – Paris Nord trains.
 

CC 72100

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So to update this a little bit with some recent progress, i've booked a return to Troyes for 6 weeks or so time, at 10 euros each way I don't think you can complain at all and will be looking forward to that!

Last weekend I did a return from Paris Gare de Lyon to Bois le Roi, being pulled on the way there and pushed on the way back by a class 7200. Did particularly enjoy flying through the local stations on the way to Melun, although it becomes a bit of a stopper after that. Had a table to myself in coach 1 of 10 on the way out, seemed very rough riding indeed!

This weekend I plan to go for a little trip out of Montparnesse on the line to Rambouillet. Hoping to do some mainline stuff as well as the hauled on the Transilien. I know there is an hourly service more or less on TER centre, how many of these workings are hauled I don't know. Every hour would be nice ;)
 

Gordon

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This weekend I plan to go for a little trip out of Montparnesse on the line to Rambouillet. Hoping to do some mainline stuff as well as the hauled on the Transilien. I know there is an hourly service more or less on TER centre, how many of these workings are hauled I don't know. Every hour would be nice ;)

You may be lucky and get an ageing BB8500 out of Montparnasse, but less likely at weekends.

Have you thought about nipping out of Montparnasse in the evening peak? You can certainly get to Rambouillet and back in the 'after work' period
 

CC 72100

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You may be lucky and get an ageing BB8500 out of Montparnasse, but less likely at weekends.

Have you thought about nipping out of Montparnasse in the evening peak? You can certainly get to Rambouillet and back in the 'after work' period

It was all electric units yesterday, boring! haha

In the end I did the Transilien as far as Saint Cyr... Part of what I enjoyed about the line P to Provins and the loco-hauled to Melun the other week was flying through the stations close to Paris non-stop - unfortunately as there is no more local service, we stopped everywhere from Montparnasse, which means it took around 35/40 minutes to do 13 miles. Not sure whether I'll do that again.

I haven't no, as I'm not valid to there during the week, although for my last month in March when the weather is getting better again then I may buy a zones 1 - 5 and go for things like the Rambouillet, the loco-hauled on the line P etc.

Next weekend I plan to do a return (or two) to Mantes la Jolie on the Intercités services towards Normandie which stop there. Should be 35 minutes of non-stop each way from St Lazare. Got a +15 at Mantes, which isn't too long (i've not heard the best of things about the place!) but long enough to re-validate the old Navigo.
 

leytongabriel

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Just to be clear on a couple of things.

You'll need passport id when getting you Navigo pass and be prepared to wait a while at 'le Club' - a misnomer if there ever was one. At busy times security guards control the queue waiting outside the office.

As an itern you should be entitled to subsidised transport too, perhaps best to check with the company, and you can get the document needed, the 'attestation' when you register and first get your Navigo.

Navigo passes are ok on 'mainline' /regional trains such as the TER semi-fast trains from Monparnasse to Le Mans mentioned above IF they stop at stations in the Isle de France region. If there is a column at the beginning of the platform you should touch in, even if you didn't have to go through the suburban automatic gates. But some stations eg St Lazare don't have them yet. Its 80 euros if you can't show a valid ticket even if you do have a Navigo in your pocket at home!

It is now possible to buy add-ons from the last Isle for France station to your destination which didn't used to be avaialble. Useful for getting to Fontainbleu for example or the Creil service mentioned above.
 
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CC 72100

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Just to be clear on a couple of things.

You'll need passport id when getting you Navigo pass and be prepared to wait a while at 'le Club' - a misnomer if there ever was one. At busy times security guards control the queue waiting outside the office.

The other weekend I went to 'recharger' my navigo pass for October - the queue then at le club at Gare De Lyon must have been 30 strong, ouch. I instead did it at the Transilien counter opposite, after waiting 10 or so minutes. The day I went to get my navigo pass (midweek lunchtime) we were seen to immediately, and my driving licence and accommodation contract sufficed... we got off lightly then!

As an itern you should be entitled to subsidised transport too, perhaps best to check with the company, and you can get the document needed, the 'attestation' when you register and first get your Navigo.

My company said that they are no longer allowed to refund us 50%, as much as 'they'd like to'. Oh well, tant pis as the French would say!

Navigo passes are ok on 'mainline' /regional trains such as the TER semi-fast trains from Monparnasse to Le Mans mentioned above IF they stop at stations in the Isle de France region. If there is a column at the beginning of the platform you should touch in, even if you didn't have to go through the suburban automatic gates. But some stations eg St Lazare don't have them yet. Its 80 euros if you can't show a valid ticket even if you do have a Navigo in your pocket at home!

Oh yes, definitely make sure they actually stop within Ile de France, that wouldn't be funny! At Gare de Lyon the other day for example there was a Navigo validator next to our departure platform, although the information desk told me that any validator on the station would suffice. I'll double check the situation at St Lazare - I know it is valid as the trains show up in the journey planner, just the small matter of finding somewhere to validate. With regards to fines/ fare evasion, don't get me started on that, it is frustrating enough every morning watching those get a free ride when we pay our 84 euros a month for the same service, let alone when you have people asking you, without a hint of embarrassment, whether they can come through the barriers with you. Errr...non.

Cheers for your response :)
 

Peter Mugridge

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On the same note, one of the up evening services in the xx.13 / xx43 pattern at Melun - I think the 19.43 but my brain is fuzzy at the moment - is a TER push pull set with a BB7200 and a rake of 10 very comfortable Corail type carriages and the Paris Visite is certainly valid on it; I did it the other day and not one of the three or four ticket inspectors on board batted an eyelid when they looked at it.
 

CC 72100

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On the same note, one of the up evening services in the xx.13 / xx43 pattern at Melun - I think the 19.43 but my brain is fuzzy at the moment - is a TER push pull set with a BB7200 and a rake of 10 very comfortable Corail type carriages and the Paris Visite is certainly valid on it; I did it the other day and not one of the three or four ticket inspectors on board batted an eyelid when they looked at it.

Yep, did that a few week back. I'm tempted to say it is the :43, as during the day it is the :49 departure that is hauled. There were a fair few on there with Navigo passes and other normal Paris paper tickets, and as you say, a full inspection with the aid of about 5 staff as we were just pulling out of Paris.

Could have done with an inspection on the way back mind....
 

Peter Mugridge

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Other way round - it was from Melun to Paris...:)

Not sure in my mind now if it was the 19.43; might have been the 18.43. I did three return trips that evening so it's a bit fuzzy in my mind!
 
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