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Paris - Pass Navigo & other Île-de-France questions

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Peter Mugridge

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Yes, as it's one of the 6 car class Z5600 units it works only on the Versailles services. Hang around at any station on the central part of Line C and it'll soon turn up. Westbound trains "VICK" and eastbound trains "CIME" which show as "train court" on the indicators are likely to produce it. Unfortunately there are no island platforms on that section so you might end up having to chase it a bit...

Saw it several times while I was over there but I didn't note which specific unit it is as it was dud for haulage! Not even sure if it's only one unit thus treated as all* the 6 car sets seem to be confined to that route.



*Note this excludes Z5601 to Z5631 as these do not work RER Line C at all.
 
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CC 72100

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Other way round - it was from Melun to Paris...:)

Not sure in my mind now if it was the 19.43; might have been the 18.43. I did three return trips that evening so it's a bit fuzzy in my mind!

Aha, I was close enough!

They're a good ride to be fair, nice and fast until Melun, and you can do a + 10 at the station after Melun (Bois le Roi) for one back into the capital, which all costs a grand total of nothing on a ticket I have to buy for the commute anyway... lovely stuff!
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But some stations eg St Lazare don't have them yet. Its 80 euros if you can't show a valid ticket even if you do have a Navigo in your pocket at home!

can confirm this, very strange.

Asked the chef de train what to do about it, he told me to just get on. I could have had a 'blank' Navigo pass, but there we go. Touched in at Mantes-La-Jolie on the way back though.

I had a unit both ways - think the problem was that I was doing a Rouen terminator, not a Le Havre train, the majority of which are non-stop till Rouen. Is it the case that all of the Le Havre trains are hauled, and the Rouen ones the rather modern but spartan for an 'intercités' service plastic cart?

I then went out to Clichy Levallois - asked at the info point if I was missing a trick regarding the Navigo readers 'Oh we don't have those here, just get on' - no wonder fare evasion is so common in Ile-de-France!


Does anyone know if Intercités trains 3109 (Paris SL - Le Havre) and 3128 (Le Havre - Paris SL) are loco-hauled? I'm thinking of doing a trip to the Rouen Xmas markets, but would rather do it on Corail stock than with a local 5 car plastic thing!
 
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Peter Mugridge

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They're a good ride to be fair, nice and fast until Melun, and you can do a + 10 at the station after Melun (Bois le Roi) for one back into the capital, which all costs a grand total of nothing on a ticket I have to buy for the commute anyway... lovely stuff!

I thought about trying that but with the word "supprimé" appearing on occasion at short notice on the screens I opted for the longer wait at Melun itself on each trip I did ( five in total over two separate days ).

That paid off twice as on one trip I was able to bag a pair of Z5300s by going to Livry sur Seine and hoping like hell that I could not only run to the crossing before the barriers came down for the return working but that the return working would make the +4 at Melun for the Paris. ( Would have liked to spend more time bashing the Z5300s; hadn't realised Melun was now a hot spot for the class! )

On the other occasion there was indeed a short notice cancellation of a Paris one so I bagged a Z20500 by nipping to Lee Mée and back while waiting for the following Paris one.


I then went out to Clichy Levallois - asked at the info point if I was missing a trick regarding the Navigo readers 'Oh we don't have those here, just get on' - no wonder fare evasion is so common in Ile-de-France!

The number of people jumping barriers or forcing exit only barriers open is incredible; even more unbelievable is that staff don't even try to stop it from happening...
 

CC 72100

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I thought about trying that but with the word "supprimé" appearing on occasion at short notice on the screens I opted for the longer wait at Melun itself on each trip I did ( five in total over two separate days ).

That paid off twice as on one trip I was able to bag a pair of Z5300s by going to Livry sur Seine and hoping like hell that I could not only run to the crossing before the barriers came down for the return working but that the return working would make the +4 at Melun for the Paris. ( Would have liked to spend more time bashing the Z5300s; hadn't realised Melun was now a hot spot for the class! )

Good work! When I was on the Transillien out of Montparnesse the other day I hoped one would turn up on a shorter working, as according to wikipedia they work on the line, but nope. May have to take a trip down to Melun to do them...
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The number of people jumping barriers or forcing exit only barriers open is incredible; even more unbelievable is that staff don't even try to stop it from happening...

Well, fare evasion is so high due to a number of factors:

- The gates themselves are 'weak' - just a turnstile that you can vault over or crawl under without too much effort just doesn't cut the mustard.

- Someone uses the wide gate? free transport for all, watch 10 people go on through, it's open for about 30 years and you could park a bus in the space.

- The exits - not only do they not require tickets to use, you can just wait outside the door and go in when somebody comes out, not hard

- No staff on the gateline

- The staff seem resigned to let it happen and people know they can get away with it - even an info point right opposite and looking onto the gateline doesn't stop it

- Ticket checks are far too infrequent and seem to be poorly done - yes, 10 coach train, 9 RPIs. most effective use of them is of course to keep them all together. As a result there are a lot of '10 year olds' who work in offices etc. (Child ticket!)

- The barriers don't appear very 'intelligent' with regards to whether tickets are really valid or not.

- The system on the whole has a very low visible staff presence.

I do give up at times, not a day goes by without me seeing some sort of fare evasion. At times it feels as if it is the majority of the commuters and the innocent tourists that the subsidize the rest.

And the above is my experience of central Paris and good neighbourhoods. The banlieue without flimsy barriers may be even worst.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Good work! When I was on the Transillien out of Montparnesse the other day I hoped one would turn up on a shorter working, as according to wikipedia they work on the line, but nope. May have to take a trip down to Melun to do them...

They certainly used to work off Montparnasse, but haven't seen any there this year.

At Melun, on the other hand, all the non-Paris locals seemed to be Z5300; saw almost a dozen units in total there.
 

Gordon

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French Wikipedia looks to be reasonably up to date.

States current services as
Juvisy - Melun (JOPA/ZOPO)
Melun - Montereau via Héricy (KOHO/ZOHA)
Paris-Montparnasse - Sèvres-Rive-Gauche (SOPI/POSI)

One reason why the Montparnasse workings have reduced is that the introduction of the converted BB7200 now BB7600 has speeded up during tis year
Incidentally the Rambouillet service is a rare example of a multiple unit being replaced by locomotive hauled where the Z5300 have been replaced by the BB7600

For a nostalgic view of Montparnasse workings:
http://gwizz.piwigo.com/index?/category/17-france_november_2006


.
 

CC 72100

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French Wikipedia looks to be reasonably up to date.

States current services as
Juvisy - Melun (JOPA/ZOPO)
Melun - Montereau via Héricy (KOHO/ZOHA)
Paris-Montparnasse - Sèvres-Rive-Gauche (SOPI/POSI)


Incidentally the Rambouillet service is a rare example of a multiple unit being replaced by locomotive hauled where the Z5300 have been replaced by the BB7600

That's a fair point actually, not often you see that.

I covered the Rambouillet services a few weeks back - had a BB27300 out, and we seemed to roll back just before leaving a few station, very strange indeed.

Will be keeping my eyes peeled for 'Les petits gris' when I head back to Melun area soon.
 

CC 72100

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Thought that I'd report back a little on this :

My preferred move has been the loco-hauled out of Paris Gare de Lyon. The 7200s on the Laroche-Migennes services on load 10 are rather decent indeed, and you get a good ride at about 70 - 80 mph through the suburbs. Good Corail stock too - sometimes a compo in the front coach, but more often than not an open. If anyone is thinking of doing it, take the :49 departure from Paris Lyon to Bois-le-Roi (:20) to be shoved back on another load 10 loco-hauled at :37, taking again around 35 minutes to get back to Paris.

I have enjoyed two trips out to Troyes, these locos really do have to be heard to be believed. Again it's Corail stock, again it could be compo or an open leading, and prices start at 10 euros each way. I believe however that on a weekday, the 17:12 to Troyes is hauled, and makes an additional call at Longueville (zone 5 in Ile-de-France) - if that is confirmed, I know what i'll be doing in my final week.

Also enjoyed a return to Rouen (10 euros each way). Going I was mistakedly booked on a unit (thanks ticket clerk!) which was in good enough nick but didn't feel very Intercity at all. 2+2 seating throughout, but no tables and zero legroom.

My train back was load 8 double deck stock. Not impressed with this at all - it has obviously been converted for TER usage in the 90s, meaning that it was rather tired on-board. Had a window that wouldn't open but nor would it shut properly, and again, minimal legroom. To top it all off, it had horrible Paris metro-style door closing alarms as well, not what I want to hear on a day out.

This was on a Le Havre - Paris train, about 2h 30 end to end. These sets are being refurbished, in a similar interior to the units. Are going up to 3+2 seating though! :o

Finally, I recommend the units on the Transilien L. These stainless steel 4 car units have a bit of charm to them - I'm not sure why, but always enjoy travelling on them. In stark contrast to the MI 79 / MI84 stock, which have an awful grinding sound on the front axles, and the unrefurbished examples are just horrible.

As always, any questions or comments, fire away!
 
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