Parliamentary services and stations in next Northern Franchise

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by thenorthern, 9 Aug 2015.

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  1. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    Has there been any news on the future of the parliamentary/infrequent services that Northern Rail currently operate during the next franchise period?

    Given the relatively large amount of parliamentary services that Northern Rail operate all (I think) of which were inherited from First North Western and Arriva Trains Northern who in turn inherited them from British Rail I wouldn't be surprised if one of the bidders has made a franchise commitment to close some of the stations.

    I know Halton Curve is likely to be upgraded and restored to regular traffic during the next franchise period which will mean it will no longer be a parliamentary service.

    There was some talk last year about the DfT allowing the new franchise holder to officially close Reddish South and Denton although the local MP wasn't happy about this.

    I have heard no talk about what will happen to Teesside Airport, the Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Brigg line, the Helsby to Ellesmere Port line or the Sheffield to York via Pontefract line. I did hear somewhere that Longport may have more Northern services calling there when the new franchise is in place although I doubt that this will happen.

    Has anyone heard any other information on the parliamentary Northern services post 2016?

    Given that immediately after taking over the franchise Central Trains applied to close the Sinfin Branch Line I am surprised others haven't followed suit. The Sinfin Branch Line I suppose was an unusual case though.

    A bit of a side note here Teesside Airport in the entire franchise period had received the same amount of passengers as the next station on the route (Allens West) receives every 3 days.
     
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  3. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Just wait until the figures for this year are published. There will be a massive rise due to what is happening at the end of this month.
     
  4. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    What's that? Increased flights from the airport perhaps?
     
  5. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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  6. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    First airshow for many years, providing the extra trains/stops are run/made. I read that there were, just cannot remember where!
     
  7. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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  8. WCMLaddict

    WCMLaddict Member

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    Network Rail apparently deemed Teesside Airport unsafe to accommodate crowds.
     
  9. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Oh :(

    There website still says that extra trains will be running into the airport station but I guess they haven't updated it.
     
  10. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    I can't see any record of any additional calls at Teesside Airport on the 29th of August.

    How long has Teesside Airport been a parliamentary station?
     
  11. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Since the early 1990s I believe. It's sited in completely the wrong place for the airport terminal so has never been a popular way of getting there. Even when they tried running a shuttle bus (which I think might have even been free) no one used it.

    Unless the terminal moves or they re-build the railway line (or build a spur), all of which are unlikely, then the station is as good as dead. The only way I can see it being revived is if the housing estate that is suggested gets built next to it. Even then Dinsdale station isn't very far away.
     
  12. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    All the "parliamentary" services seem to be specified as "required" in the tender specifications. The Ellesmere Port /Helsby line service is modified to require a (very limited) service to/from Manchester Victoria (or beyond)
     
  13. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    Realistically the DfT should consider closing some of the stations but I don't think it will ever happen.
     
  14. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    The other operator that could stop there is LM. Occasionally they do on Sundays in lieu of EMT services as these are replaced by bus between Derby and Stoke (No EMT depot at Crewe).
     
  15. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    I was at Longport once and a Northern 323 stopped at Longport and the driver popped his head out the window and said that he had been radioed to stop at Longport and pick anyone who is there up as the severe weather was causing trains to be canceled. :D
     
  16. NorthernSpirit

    NorthernSpirit Established Member

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    Alternatively, they could downgrade the stations to 'request stops'. The station remains but any local services that pass through it would only stop on request.
     
  17. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Would the station still need to be maintained in order to provide a health and safety approved platform surface....or not?
     
  18. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    Given the cost of lighting, signage (Teesside Airport has had new ones), posters, maintenance e.c.t how much per passenger do these parliamentary services cost to run?

    One thing Northern Rail have done under the current franchise is revive Dunston, Blaydon, Manors and Dronfield stations so that they are usable although in most cases I think it was Nexus who encouraged that. I have heard Ardwick may get a better service soon but we will have to wait and see if it does.

    Given that all stations must be completely accessible post 2020 I wonder if these parliamentary stations and other lightly used stations such as Braystones and Nethertown will be made accessible.
     
  19. onlinespotting

    onlinespotting Member

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    Barlaston, Wedgwood, NORTON BRIDGE??!
     
  20. Cheshire Rover

    Cheshire Rover Member

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    Trains each way in the morning and evening peak. Significant improvement to the service now. It will be interesting to see what the patronage is.
     
    Last edited: 10 Aug 2015
  21. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    I'd be very surprised if a prospective franchisee went to the trouble of proposing a closure. Although the procedures allow for a TOC to propose a closure, I can't think of a precedent for this.

    The whole reason a parliamentary exists (in the modern definition) is that it is too much trouble to close the route or station. Why would a TOC want to take this problem on if the DfT won't?
     
  22. berneyarms

    berneyarms Established Member

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    From the service specifications of the tender documentation there are a large number of specified services - so OP I don't think that closure will be an option.

    REQUIREMENT
    One service shall be provided each week between the following stations in at least one direction:

    Carnforth and Morecambe
    Frodsham and Runcorn (from the last Sunday before Spring Bank Holiday weekend until the second Sunday in September, inclusive).
    Eaglescliffe and Stockton
    Ince and Wigan North Western
    Wigan North Western and Patricroft
    Wigan North Western and Newton-le-Willows
    Worksop and Retford (High Level)
    Sheffield and Chesterfield (via Woodhouse)
    Dinting and Hadfield (not via Glossop)
    Dinting and Glossop (not via Hadfield)
    Hare Park Junction to Crofton West Junction
    Calder Bridge Junction to Turners Lane Junction
    Darlington and Eaglescliffe calling at Teesside Airport
    Stockport and Guide Bridge, calling at Reddish South and Denton.

    REQUIREMENT
    Three services shall be provided each way on Saturdays on the following route:

    Sheffield and Cleethorpes calling at Gainsborough Central, Kirton Lindsey, Brigg and Barnetby. These services may be extensions of Sheffield to Retford and Retford to Sheffield services.

    ELLESMERE PORT-HELSBY - Monday-Friday:
    One service departing from Ellesmere Port to Manchester shall arrive at Manchester between 08:00 and 08:59. One service shall depart from Ellesmere Port between 18:15 and 19:29 to Manchester.

    The service departing from Manchester to Ellesmere Port shall depart Manchester between 17:00 and 17:59.

    ELLESMERE PORT-HELSBY - Saturdays:
    Two services shall be provided from Ellesmere Port, Stanlow & Thornton and Ince & Elton to Helsby. Each of these services shall either call at Manchester or provide a Connection of no more than 15 minutes with a service to Manchester.


    Two services shall be provided departing from Helsby to Ince & Elton, Stanlow & Thornton and Ellesmere Port. If these services have not previously called at Manchester, they shall be timed to provide a Connection of no more than 15 minutes with a service from Manchester.


    SHEFFIELD-YORK (via Pontefract Baghill) - Monday-Saturday

    Two services departing from Sheffield to Pontefract Baghill shall be provided which shall also call at Meadowhall, Sherburn-in-Elmet, Church Fenton and York.
    Two services departing from Pontefract Baghill to Sheffield shall be provided.

    LEEDS-GOOLE - Monday-Friday
    One specified service departing from Goole shall arrive at Leeds between 08:00 and 08:59.
    The specified service departing from Leeds to Whitley Bridge and intermediate stations to Goole shall depart from Leeds between 17:00 and 17:59.


    LEEDS-GOOLE - Saturdays
    One specified service departing from Goole shall arrive at Leeds no later than 11:00.
    A return service is specified between 16:00 and 18:59

    LANCASTER-HEYSHAM & V.V. - Monday to Sunday
    One service specified between 10:00 and 15:59 - This service shall connect with ferry services to and from the Isle of Man.
     
    Last edited: 10 Aug 2015
  23. bradders1983

    bradders1983 Member

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    Hmm. Does this happen currently? Would probably be done by re-routing an early morning Sheffield (or Leeds)-Nottingham train that way and missing out Dronfield. Really dont see the point of including this requirement, to be honest.
     
  24. louis97

    louis97 Established Member

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    On a Saturday morning:
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y36862/2015/08/15/advanced
     
  25. berneyarms

    berneyarms Established Member

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    The 20:47 Nottingham-Sheffield service (Monday-Friday) operates non-stop from Chesterfield to Sheffield via Woodhouse.
     
    Last edited: 10 Aug 2015
  26. bradders1983

    bradders1983 Member

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    Pointless, one assumes its only done for diversionary route learning purposes.
     
  27. berneyarms

    berneyarms Established Member

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    Or to maintain a passenger service over that stretch of track, rather than going through the legal machinations of withdrawing it.

    That's another issue for parliamentary services.
     
  28. bradders1983

    bradders1983 Member

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    True although in this instance it isnt actually providing an extra passenger service to anyone, it is essentially removing a train from a station it would call it if it went the usual way (Dronfield). It sails through Woodhouse (and Darnall) without stopping to pick up or set down.
     
  29. berneyarms

    berneyarms Established Member

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    Indeed but it does provide a passenger service over the track between Woodhouse Junction and Tapton Junction - I don't think that there is a need to call anywhere.

    The same parliamentary procedure would be required to remove the service over a section of track as would be to close a station as I understand it.
     
    Last edited: 10 Aug 2015
  30. bradders1983

    bradders1983 Member

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    Aye its to save money by "closing" the line, which is stupid as freight would continue to use it anyway :)
     
  31. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    As they are currently operated by buses I think they are compliant in disability legislation even though the platforms aren't.

    The only case I can think of is the Sinfin branch line which within 6 months after taking over Central Trains applied to terminate the services along the line which was accepted by the rail regulator although Sinfin was a very unique case.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20040618071702/http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.5533
     
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