Parliamentary services and stations in next Northern Franchise

[bradders1983]

I reside next to this line and it's surprisingly quite busy Mon-Sat. the trains generally are the Freightliner operated waste containers to from Runcorn every couple of hours or so (both directions) also less frequently are the Heavyhaul workings plus a few light engine moves, sometimes up to 5 66/70s coupled together. DBS also run the Warrington-Doncaster Europort service this way (Mon-Weds.)conveying new Citroen commercial vehicles plus several aggregate type trains daily, it also seems a popular route for the Northern Belle and other charters, seems just as busy in the night as it is in the daytime, much to my wife's annoyance!

Ah I see, well I searched for everything passing through Denton...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/DTN/2015/08/13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

...and you can see nothing comes up but you say stuff does goes through there.

However I do the same search for (as an example) Cross Gates...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CRG/2015/08/13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

..and it shows all the passes. What am I doing wrong here? :-x

 

[louis97]

Ah I see, well I searched for everything passing through Denton...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/DTN/2015/08/13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

...and you can see nothing comes up but you say stuff does goes through there.

However I do the same search for (as an example) Cross Gates...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CRG/2015/08/13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

..and it shows all the passes. What am I doing wrong here? :-x

You're not doing anything wrong. Looks like Denton station is missing from the mileage database, RTT adds in intermediate timing points between compulsory timing points on the day of running. At Cross Gates everything is shown as it is a compulsory timing point. If you look at the nearby Denton Junction, you can see everything as it is a compulsory timing point. I shall investigate why Denton isn't appearing, think it might be Ash Bridge Junction is missing from the database, so the system doesn't know Denton is between Denton Junction and Ash Bridge. (It is worth noting that these intermediate timing points won't appear on VSTP services)

 

[bradders1983]

The same happens when searching for Reddish South.

 

[Ash Bridge]

The same happens when searching for Reddish South.

Yes, I see your point, got to be something amiss there, in the time it took type the previous post and this, 3 trains (2 dmu's and one Freightliner) have passed, mind you Iam a slow typer

 

[louis97]

The same happens when searching for Reddish South.

Well that would be because Reddish South is also between Ash Bridge Junction and Denton Junction.

 

[thenorthern]

For the Stockport to Stalybridge line it doesn't register non-passenger trains at Reddish South or Denton.

To see the trains passing on the line the best point to use on Real Time Trains is Denton Station Junction which there is a link to below.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...15/08/13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[louis97]

For the Stockport to Stalybridge line it doesn't register non-passenger trains at Reddish South or Denton.

Hopefully not for much longer, i'll get that fixed tonight if its the issue I think it is.

 

[frodshamfella]

All the "parliamentary" services seem to be specified as "required" in the tender specifications. The Ellesmere Port /Helsby line service is modified to require a (very limited) service to/from Manchester Victoria (or beyond)

Yes I heard there will be service alternation which would see the service extended to Manchester. This will hopefully result in greater usage, the current service is not particularly user-friendly . The Helsby to Ellesmere Port line is also used for freight, and this seems to be increasing.

 

[crispy1978]

I find all this re: Teesside a bit strange.

From the location of the station/airport to the lack of services, the supposed unsafe bridge for large crowds (but apparently OK if 50-60 turned up on a scheduled service). Surely it's either safe or it isn't - or is it a case of NR not wanting to put the extra services on?

It all just makes me wonder what the original plan was all those years ago?

 

[pemma]

Yes I heard there will be service alternation which would see the service extended to Manchester. This will hopefully result in greater usage, the current service is not particularly user-friendly . The Helsby to Ellesmere Port line is also used for freight, and this seems to be increasing.

In the Northern ITT for weekdays

One service shall be provided between Warrington Bank Quay and Ellesmere Port which shall call at all intermediate stations, and shall arrive at Ellesmere Port between 06:30 and 07:29.

One service departing from Ellesmere Port to Manchester shall arrive at Manchester between 08:00 and 08:59. One service shall depart from Ellesmere Port between 18:15 and 19:29 to Manchester.

One from Manchester to Ellesmere Port shall depart Manchester between 17:00 and 17:59.

Idea is the service to Manchester in the morning and the service from Manchester in the evening will be in lieu of the standard pattern Chester-Manchester-Bradford-Leeds services as ATW operate peak time extras at those times.

 

[bradders1983]

I find all this re: Teesside a bit strange.

From the location of the station/airport to the lack of services, the supposed unsafe bridge for large crowds (but apparently OK if 50-60 turned up on a scheduled service). Surely it's either safe or it isn't - or is it a case of NR not wanting to put the extra services on?

It all just makes me wonder what the original plan was all those years ago?

Didnt they build a new terminal after the station was built over on the other side of the airfield to the train station? Or something like that.

 

[frodshamfella]

In the Northern ITT for weekdays



Idea is the service to Manchester in the morning and the service from Manchester in the evening will be in lieu of the standard pattern Chester-Manchester-Bradford-Leeds services as ATW operate peak time extras at those times.

Interesting, thanks very much

 

[thenorthern]

Didnt they build a new terminal after the station was built over on the other side of the airfield to the train station? Or something like that.

Thats indeed what happened and there was a free shuttle bus from the station to the Airport for a few years although both proved un-economical so the shuttle bus was withdrawn and the station was reduced to 2 trains per week.

There were proposals a couple of years ago to move the station closer to the airport but given the airport lost most of its passengers during the recession and is only served by 2 destinations both 3 times per day I can't see it happening now.

 

[ainsworth74]

There were proposals a couple of years ago to move the station closer to the airport but given the airport lost most of its passengers during the recession and is only served by 2 destinations both 3 times per day I can't see it happening now.

Even then it was never likely as there isn't really anywhere to move the station to that makes the terminal more accessible without radically changing the alignment of the railway. That would be hard as the area around the terminal is quite built up so you'd be looking at constructing some sort of tunnel if you're going to get closer to the terminal!

Basically once the terminal was located in it's present location that was the end of the railway being a viable means of accessing the airport.

 

[Bevan Price]

There's quite a few trains via Beighton anyway - several EMT services are booked that way as well. The passenger service via the route from Chesterfield to Beighton Junction was withdrawn in the early 50s bar diversions anyway - I wonder if closure procedures were undertaken at the time for the route for the withdrawal of passenger services then they just carried on as a diversion

Closure procedures as we now know them were non-existent before the 1960s. Lines or stations were just closed by BR, possibly with some formal approval by the Government Ministry of Transport.

Of course part of what became the Bluebell Railway had to be reopened for a year or two because the Act of Parliament for construction of the line prevented closure by BR without amendment / repeal of that Act.

 

[crispy1978]

Thats indeed what happened and there was a free shuttle bus from the station to the Airport for a few years although both proved un-economical so the shuttle bus was withdrawn and the station was reduced to 2 trains per week.

There were proposals a couple of years ago to move the station closer to the airport but given the airport lost most of its passengers during the recession and is only served by 2 destinations both 3 times per day I can't see it happening now.

Almost makes it sound like a "parliamentary airport" so to speak.

 

[ainsworth74]

Almost makes it sound like a "parliamentary airport" so to speak.

It is basically. To be honest it's an airport that is dead but hasn't quite realised that it is yet. I'm fairly convinced that within the next five to ten years it'll close entirely and be sold off for redevelopment (which, ironically, might give the station a new lease of life!).

 

[crispy1978]

It is basically. To be honest it's an airport that is dead but hasn't quite realised that it is yet. I'm fairly convinced that within the next five to ten years it'll close entirely and be sold off for redevelopment (which, ironically, might give the station a new lease of life!).

I remember using it once about 11-12 years ago, but that was just to pick someone up - it was small at that point!

 

[1D53]

I'm sure there would be an outcry if 50-60 rocked up, fell through the bridge and injured themselves for Northern Rail to say "Hardly anyone uses this station so we don't maintain it".

It's not Northern's bridge to maintain.

 

[crispy1978]

It's not Northern's bridge to maintain.

OK - regardless of whose responsibility it is, my point still stands.

How can it be unsafe for additional services, but supposedly still safe for standard services?

 

[TBY-Paul]

I've just seen a picture, taken today, with significant number of people stood on the bridge waiting for the fly-past of spitfires, and looking at the picture, the bridge looks to be well maintained.
Also someone commented that Northern Rail asked Network Rail about adding stopping services at the Airport on the day of the Airshow, but Network rail said No.

( Picture from Saltburn Line Users Group, Facebook Page)

 

[thenorthern]

It is basically. To be honest it's an airport that is dead but hasn't quite realised that it is yet. I'm fairly convinced that within the next five to ten years it'll close entirely and be sold off for redevelopment (which, ironically, might give the station a new lease of life!).

There is planning permission for houses on some of the airport site which is probably a sign of the end, not sure who would want to live there though.

 

[1D53]

Let's wait and see. You never know, trains might be calling on the day....

 

[TBY-Paul]

Let's wait and see. You never know, trains might be calling on the day....

I really do hope so... I've been mentioning it on various FB pages locally, which I know local councillors and the local MP (James Wharton, Northern Powerhouse Minister) read... anything that encourages more local usage must be a good thing..

 

[Starmill]

Aughton Park may similarly be very difficult without reconstruction of the (very old) road bridge. At present wheelchair users can choose Town Green or Ormskirk instead.

I suspect there will be easements for this, possibly on condition of the railway providing a free accessible taxi on demand to the nearest accessible station, or similar.

Shouldn't be too difficult given Aughton Park's frankly ridiculous staffing hours for the number of people who use it...

Must be the loneliest ticket office job in the world (apart from possibly Carstairs, but that isn't still open at midnight).

 

[WatcherZero]

Almost makes it sound like a "parliamentary airport" so to speak.

Suppose technically there are a few 'parliamentary' airports/routes.

Public subsidised routes, some of which the airline in question is legally required to provide:
Glasgow-Campbeltown
Cardiff-Anglesey
Donegal-Kerry
Newquay-London

And public subsidised airport:
Glasgow Prestwick

 

[Gathursty]

Ardwick's footbridge is in far worse condition than Teesside Airport's. I'm not sure about Brigg's footbridge nor Aughton Park's since it's been a while.

 

[Hornet]

Suppose technically there are a few 'parliamentary' airports/routes.

Public subsidised routes, some of which the airline in question is legally required to provide:
Glasgow-Campbeltown
Cardiff-Anglesey
Donegal-Kerry
Newquay-London

And public subsidised airport:
Glasgow Prestwick

I hope UK taxpayers are not subsidising this service!

Would not matter anyway as there is no such direct service.
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...pack.nsf/takes/dail2014061800027?opendocument

 

[crispy1978]

Ardwick's footbridge is in far worse condition than Teesside Airport's. I'm not sure about Brigg's footbridge nor Aughton Park's since it's been a while.

Obviously pictures can be deceptive, but from Google Images, I'd tend to agree re: Ardwick!

 

[WatcherZero]

I hope UK taxpayers are not subsidising this service!

Would not matter anyway as there is no such direct service.
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas...pack.nsf/takes/dail2014061800027?opendocument

Sorry, that should be Dublin to Donegal and Kerry. Its called the Public Service Obligation and requires two direct return flights a day. Stobart won the contract to provide them for the next three years when the current three year deal expires and they will be branded Aer Lingus Regional.