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Part refund for unavailable First Class

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uefacup81

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17 Jan 2011
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21
Good morning

I'm after a little advice on policy here.

I undertook a journey with Greater Anglia the other week on a First Class return ticket, but First Class accommodation was unavailable for both legs of the journey.

I contacted GA and have received a refund for the return leg of my journey, but because the ticket barrier retained my ticket upon arrival at LST for my outward leg, they say they can't do anything with regards the outward journey.

Is this correct? I booked online through their own website, so I'm sure that with minimal effort on their part they could ascertain the facts of my outward journey as well?
 
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mallard

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12 Apr 2009
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1,304
but because the ticket barrier retained my ticket upon arrival at LST for my outward leg, they say they can't do anything with regards the outward journey.

That is surprising. I'm frequently told by members of this forum that the automatic ticket confiscations could never possibly have any bearing on one's ability to claim compensation...

Surely you should be able to provide them with a booking reference, copy of itinerary, or other such "proof of purchase"? It seems extremely unfair that a TOC should be allowed to take away a passengers' ticket (even after use) and then deny them compensation due to them not having it!
 

Belperpete

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17 Aug 2018
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If there is a possibility that I may be claiming, I do not use the automatic barrier but instead ask to be let through manually, if necessary telling the gate staff that I need to keep the ticket.

I am surprised that they rejected your claim for the outward trip, as the return portion of your ticket shows that you had an outward portion. I suggest that you appeal, quoting their booking reference number, and if possible including a copy of the itinerary.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
Good morning

I'm after a little advice on policy here.

I undertook a journey with Greater Anglia the other week on a First Class return ticket, but First Class accommodation was unavailable for both legs of the journey.

I contacted GA and have received a refund for the return leg of my journey, but because the ticket barrier retained my ticket upon arrival at LST for my outward leg, they say they can't do anything with regards the outward journey.

Is this correct? I booked online through their own website, so I'm sure that with minimal effort on their part they could ascertain the facts of my outward journey as well?
Let's have a look at what your contractual entitlement is. The ticket was sold subject to the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT). Condition 31.1 thereof states that:
If you have a first class Ticket and the train service you use is shown as offering first class accommodation at www.nationalrail.co.uk, but when you travel first class accommodation is not provided or is otherwise fully occupied, you may claim a refund. The minimum refund to which you will be entitled will be the difference between the price of the first class Ticket purchased and the cheapest valid standard class walk-up fare available on the service you used. You must write to the Train Company to notify them of your claim within 28 days of the date that you travelled.
Accordingly, there is no requirement given there for you to produce a ticket, and therefore Greater Anglia are in breach of contract if they refuse to provide the refund which you are entitled to, on the basis of you not producing a ticket which they have themselves retained.

This is clearly differentiated from the cases of seeking to obtain a refund on an unused ticket for your own reasons (Condition 29), seeking to obtain a refund on an unused ticket when disruption occurs (Condition 30), and seeking to obtain compensation for delays (Condition 33). Each of these require you to "return the Ticket" (30.1) or "provide a Ticket" (33.1), so it is clear that loss of the ticket for whatever reason will mean you are no longer eligible to claim compensation. Equally, there is no right in the NRCoT for you to keep a ticket (it being the property of the train companies) for the purposes of a first class unavailability claim.

If a formal complaint does not result in you receiving the compensation to which you are entitled (this being, correctly, the difference in fare between standard and first class at the time you bought your ticket, as best as this can be approximated in the case of Advances*), then come back here for further advice as to how to proceed.

*Whilst the NRCoT only provides explicitly for a refund of the difference between the price of your ticket and the cost the cheapest valid standard walk-up fare, refusing to provide the difference between the equivalent fares at the time of purchase (which may be by comparison to the same tier of standard Advance, for example) would still be a breach of contract on self-evidential grounds (you have paid an additional fare for no benefit at all).
 
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