Passenger Complaint regarding Gender

[WestRiding]

The other point is that the person concerned wasn't directly addressed. He was just one of a number.

And, before I get slated, not sure how to put this into words, but here goes. I get that the look of someone should not come into play, but it does, its real life, but regarding miss identifying people, (forgive me if this is worded wrong) if someone appears to be Male, but is infact a Woman, or indeed vice versa, is it REALLY such a crime, when its just an innocent mistake? And what is the ACTUAL SOLUTION for the clueless person who made the mistake. Should we start all conversations in person and on the phone, with strangers, by first of all, asking how they/each other identifies? Because that solution would cause more offence to be taken, surely?

 

[Journeyman]

Seems Journeyman likes to twist what people say to suit the personal agenda. Question though, regarding being identified wrong, whats the solution? Its unfair to expect everyone to be a mind reader and know the situation. For example, if someone has a predominantly blokes name, why is it wrong for people to innocently believe they are talking to a bloke?

I'm not twisting anything, and I have no "agenda". You said several things about gender identity that were wrong.

And, before I get slated, not sure how to put this into words, but here goes. I get that the look of someone should not come into play, but it does, its real life, but regarding miss identifying people, (forgive me if this is worded wrong) if someone appears to be Male, but is infact a Woman, or indeed vice versa, is it REALLY such a crime, when its just an innocent mistake? And what is the ACTUAL SOLUTION for the clueless person who made the mistake. Should we start all conversations in person and on the phone, with strangers, by first of all, asking how they/each other identifies? Because that solution would cause more offence to be taken, surely?

The vast majority of people are fine with accidental misgendering. It's deliberate misgendering that's a problem, and the issue here is that using inclusive language in the first place nips a lot of problems in the bud.

Yes, in most cases, if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. No-one is disputing that. Although I think the issue is a valid one, no-one here is advocating crucifying anyone for honest mistakes, and I do think the complainant is excessively throwing their toys out the pram.

 

[Bluejays]

In terms of causing offence I think we can say with some degree of certainty that the guard didn't mean to cause offence with that language. The complainer most definitely sought to cause offence with the moronic way they decided to complain. When it comes to the absolute disgrace responsible for the Lner tweet, they may not have meant to be offensive to the guard , but were certainly guilty of being grossly insensitive and demeaning to him.

I personally don't use ladies and gentleman because I realise it can upset some people. I understand why some people want its use stopped. But believing in something like that doesn't give you the right to treat people like they are scum. As far as I'm concerned thats what laurence and the lner tweeter have done to the guard.


Also reminded me of something I picked up on last week. Up in the Manchester area (can't remember if it was tpe or atw) , the auto announcer about large gaps starts 'ladies and gentleman'. I believe the gwr one at temple meads also does.

Seems like the toc's could do with sorting themselves out, before throwing their front line staff under the bus!!

 

[WestRiding]

I'm not twisting anything, and I have no "agenda". You said several things about gender identity that were wrong.


The vast majority of people are fine with accidental misgendering. It's deliberate misgendering that's a problem, and the issue here is that using inclusive language in the first place nips a lot of problems in the bud.

Yes, in most cases, if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. No-one is disputing that. Although I think the issue is a valid one, no-one here is advocating crucifying anyone for honest mistakes, and I do think the complainant is excessively throwing their toys out the pram.

Regarding twisting things, I beg to differ. Earlier on, you accused me of not respecting people's decisions. You said that I found it offensive. And you told me that I do not care about offending people. You twisted what I actually said, because you interpreted it how you wanted to. You twisted it to win. I said none of the above. I respect people's choices. I certainly do not find it offensive, and never said I do. And I do not set out to offend people, at no point did I say I am not bothered about offending people.

 

[Journeyman]

Regarding twisting things, I beg to differ. Earlier on, you accused me of not respecting people's decisions. You said that I found it offensive. And you told me that I do not care about offending people. You twisted what I actually said, because you interpreted it how you wanted to. You twisted it to win. I said none of the above. I respect people's choices. I certainly do not find it offensive, and never said I do. And I do not set out to offend people, at no point did I say I am not bothered about offending people.

Then why are you so angry and defensive?

 

[WestRiding]

Then why are you so angry and defensive?

There you go again. Presuming. And incorrectly too. I am far from angry. Defensive, well yes, when you're accusing people of untruths. There is no tone in text. You're imagining it.

 

[bb21]

I think the thread has run its course and everyone has had ample opportunity to have their say.

Let's just remind ourselves that societies move on, public opinions change, but also that some people will take time to adapt. It is important to respect our differences and at the same time be mindful of issues others find important and be respectful of that.

Thank you for all your contribution.