Passenger Information Failings

[Deepgreen]

I am seeing more and more examples of the poor/no siting of passenger information displays at stations. Today, I travelled through Redhill and on via Clapham Junction, then back again. Redhill is notoriously badly planned and managed and it has recently had the opportunity for comprehensive review of information provision as part of the introduction of platform 0. New screens have been installed throughout, but exactly where the old ones were, not where they would be useful today.
For its size, it's quite a complicated station and confusing for passengers (a significant proportion of whom will be Gatwick passengers). The platforms are all split into two sections (north and south, suffixed A and B respectively), but there are no clear signs that trains may use either section. On coming up the stairs to platform 1, for example, there is a standard DMI for platform 1B, and another for 1A sited a lot further along. On arrival on the platform there is no mention of the fact that one's train may leave from the other section - a simple, large printed sign near the stairs would help hugely.
Then there is platform 0 (the new one) where there are FOUR DMIs spread out along the 12 car length, but none of them anywhere near the stairs entering the platform, which is exactly where people need confirmation of the next train(s). However, there IS a general departures screen near the stairs (facing people coming up the stairs to the platform), which is not needed there! Given that many trains using platform 0 stop a ridiculously long way from the stairs, passengers have to stop to try to pick out their train from the list and then decide if they are in the right place. By the time they've done this and set off for the distant train, it's too late - I've seen many people miss trains for this very reason - not funny on the infrequent North Downs line.

At Clapham Junction, platform 15 (down Victoria slow), the western-most stairs down from the footbridge produce a large passenger flow, but there is no DMI that can be seen from the area. Today I witnessed a succession of passengers come down the stairs, look round for information, board the train (just in case) and then hold the doors to ask staff (who sarcastically and uselessly said the information was as shown on the screen!). Delays and friction are produced for the simple lack of vital information where it's needed - again, no attempt seems to have been made to understand the passengers' needs.

I've seen countless other examples of poor space planning and I wonder if any TOCs/NR actually use professionals for this vital task, or do they just provide x number of screens, signs, etc. per station and scatter them semi-randomly. The latter seems to be the case. As someone who used to plan station information systems for a living, I find it hard to believe that anyone actually looks at the stations' layouts from the perspective of passengers needing quick and clear information.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's only one station I can think of that had displays immediately on the platform from the stairs, which was 1980s Liverpool Central. It hasn't had for years. I think this is discouraged as it can cause someone on the stairs to run for a train and so fall.

 

[Foxcote]

Bletchleyite, you are correct, Liverpool Central Low Level had a large illuminated destination board, immediately on the platform beyond the sliding pantograph gates. It was visible from the top of the stairs leading down onto the platform and I believe it had been there since early Mersey Railway days.

To reduce the number of passengers running in the passageway leading from the High Level Station and Lewis’s entrance, a system of three coloured lights, red,green and yellow indicated which train was in the departure platform. A red light indicated the Rock Ferry train. I am not 100% sure if there were any such lights in the Adelphi entrance, but a similar system was fitted in the long tunnel leading down from the Water Street entrance at James Street.

Hopefully, someone will jog my memory on the Adelphi entrance, and correct me when I say that West Kirby train was a green light and New Brighton train was a yellow.

 

[Deepgreen]

There's only one station I can think of that had displays immediately on the platform from the stairs, which was 1980s Liverpool Central. It hasn't had for years. I think this is discouraged as it can cause someone on the stairs to run for a train and so fall.

Yes, I don't advocate having any screen in a spot that would cause congestion or danger, but passengers arriving on a platform simply need the information about the next train easily to hand. This could mean a DMI about 10m from the stairs, say. The Clapham Junction one is also a safety hazard in itself, because the absence of information where it's needed forces people either to walk down the edge of the crowded platform to get to within reading distance of the DMI (while security guards are shouting to keep behind the yellow line), or jump on the train at the platform and then hold the doors open while they ask where its going.

What stands out to me is that no-one actually acts as a passenger when planning these things by, for example, doing a walk-through to find where the information nodal points are.

 

[Ianno87]

At Clapham Junction, platform 15 (down Victoria slow), the western-most stairs down from the footbridge produce a large passenger flow, but there is no DMI that can be seen from the area. Today I witnessed a succession of passengers come down the stairs, look round for information, board the train (just in case) and then hold the doors to ask staff (who sarcastically and uselessly said the information was as shown on the screen!). Delays and friction are produced for the simple lack of vital information where it's needed - again, no attempt seems to have been made to understand the passengers' needs.

At Clapham Junction, it is almost certainly deliberate to stop people stopping dead at the bottom of the stairs to read the screens and cause a congestion/safety issue as a result. People must spread down the platform to read the screens. Plus for observant/unsure there is a DMI at the top of the stairs to read, where there is much more space to do so. Also encouraging people not getting the next couple of trains not to head down to the platform in the first place.

People do think about this stuff you know...

Re: the sarcastic staff. There's such a flow of successive trains that it's probably very hard to keep track of which train is which, and it is not their primary safety responsibility! The screens are more reliable than them accidentally telling people to get on the wrong train.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Can someone explain why DMI is an abbreviation for passenger information displays?
DMI is more commonly used to refer to Driver-Machine Interface in my personal experience. (I realise that plenty of abbreviations and acronyms have more than one application.)

 

[philthetube]

Dot Matrix Indicator?

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes professionals are used, yes they go around and check sites as if they were passengers (as indeed they are), and, of course, there are compromises to be made.

 

[Deepgreen]

At Clapham Junction, it is almost certainly deliberate to stop people stopping dead at the bottom of the stairs to read the screens and cause a congestion/safety issue as a result. People must spread down the platform to read the screens. Plus for observant/unsure there is a DMI at the top of the stairs to read, where there is much more space to do so. Also encouraging people not getting the next couple of trains not to head down to the platform in the first place.

People do think about this stuff you know...

Re: the sarcastic staff. There's such a flow of successive trains that it's probably very hard to keep track of which train is which, and it is not their primary safety responsibility! The screens are more reliable than them accidentally telling people to get on the wrong train.

Re. the screens' positions - if that's the case, it fails badly. I am not advocating a DMI exactly by the stairs (obviously), but close enough at least to be read from the area. As it is, people DO stop dead at the foot of the stairs while they try to ascertain where the train is going, and they DO hold the doors to try to ask the question. On top of this, the one (only one for one of the busiest platforms in London!) DMI on platform 15 is right by the top of the other set of stairs (from the subway), so that argument doesn't hold water. The sarcastic staff telling people to check the screens when they are at the front of the train and cannot possibly see the single DMI is certainly unhelpful and does the staff no favours at all.

If people do think about this stuff, the results don't bear this out. Redhill is also atrocious by any measure.

 

[Deepgreen]

Yes professionals are used, yes they go around and check sites as if they were passengers (as indeed they are), and, of course, there are compromises to be made.

Well, at Redhill's new platform 0, the screens' positions are simply dire - there's only an 'all trains summary' screen legible from anywhere near the stairs, when a 'next train from this platform' DMI is what's needed to provide a quick confirmation of the train at the platform. There's no "compromise" to be made here, it's simply wrong from a passenger's perspective! Also at platform 0, there are FOUR DMIs towards the north end of an uncluttered and gently-curving platform, while at Clapham Junction's platform 15, a sinuous and VERY busy one, there is only ONE DMI for the whole platform!

 

[Deepgreen]

Here is Redhill's platform 0. One picture shows the ridiculous stopping point for terminating/reversing GWR trains. The mark puts almost the whole train beyond the canopy, and needlessly far from the stairs. Why can't a 2/3 car mark be provided that puts the train as close to the stairs as possible (presumably to put it at the S/12car mark southbound mark)? Why wasn't this considered when building it?

The picture also shows the lack of a quick-to-read 'next train from this platform' DMI any closer than the canopy - indeed, the nearest such screen is actually beyond the canopy! Then there are three more screens at frequent intervals north thereof - why?! The only screen near the stairs is a list of all trains from the whole station, from which it takes some time (when desperate to catch the distant waiting train!) to extract platform 0's next departure. There needs to be a 'next train' DMI under the canopy above the poster frame, and the summary screen needs to face the other way, as it will be people alighting from trains that need it much more.
The second picture shows the construction nearing completion, with the proliferation of DMIs at the north end, where they are far less useful. Compare this with Clapham Junction's p15, with its tight reverse curves, general far greater visual clutter and far greater passenger use, where a single DMI is considered adequate!

This is just platform 0's failings - the rest of the station would take too long here!

If this is the result of 'professionals', then bring on the amateurs!

 

[c52]

At Gatwick on Saturday I found nice new screens telling me the next six (?) departures from Platform 1 & 2, but no clue as to where the Southampton train would leave from.

At Redhill there is no information at the foot of the steps to P0. As trains still leave at random from P0/P1/P2 instead of being predictable as promised, you either have to check which platform you need before going through the barriers or go to the entrance to P1/P2 for a screen.

At Redhill P1/P2 there are two screens for 'next departures' next to each other. Instead of one showing the next departures and the other showing subsequent departures, they both show the same, and alternate between screen 1 and screen 2, or worse, screen 1, screen 2 and some other information.

 

[Deepgreen]

At Reading today. Immediately before I took these photos, I was asked; "where are the trains" by a young mum with children at the spot adjacent to the 'Subway' barrier. Signs for everything, except how to get to the trains! Then, when one does head in the right direction, there's an 'afterthought' sign by the ticket gates! It proclaims that this is the "Main entrance to all platforms". While there are other entrances to the station, by the time one has got to this point it's irrelevant that this is the so-called main entrance. Simply 'To The Trains' would be fine, and a large sign the same size as the "Tickets" one in the general view shot, but reading 'Trains' with an arrow, is needed high up near it. Another very poor information regime, demonstrated to me by my being asked the way from the ticket hall to the trains!

 

[vlad]

At Reading today. Immediately before I took these photos, I was asked; "where are the trains" by a young mum with children at the spot adjacent to the 'Subway' barrier. Signs for everything, except how to get to the trains!

You have to remember that you go to stations to shop - catching a train from one is an afterthought.