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Passenger loading late at night on rural branches

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Tetchytyke

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I used to be a fairly regular user of the last Newcastle-Carlisle and, at most, there were three or four people on it midweek after about Haltwhistle. More on a Friday or a Saturday, especially if Newcastle United had been playing at home. Going back a bit further it used to be similar on the S&C on the last Leeds-Carlisle. Standing room only to Skipton and then in winter I was the only one on it north of Settle.
 
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norbitonflyer

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Newspaper train?
Until the 1980s most long distance newspaper distribution was done by rail. Many national titles had printing presses in Manchester as well as Fleet Street. Fleets of vans would converge on all the London termini late at night, and the Manchester stations, with bundles destined for each station served by the trains, and the wholesalers or individual newsagents would meet the trains with their own vans to collect them ready for sale.
The trains, like those carrying more contention ally perishable commodities like fresh fish, were given high priority. Many of them would include a passenger coach (or often half of one, ie a BSK or similar)
 

PyrahnaRanger

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The population of Workington is more like 30,000 than 20,000. It was 28,000 when I looked it up years ago.
21,281 according to the last census, a slight drop from the 2011 one. Not that I’m surprised - well paid jobs aren’t plentiful, even Sellafield seems to be slowing down. Many young people never return home from university by the time they get a job in their chosen field.

There’s also a wider problem in Cumbria with falling birth rates as young people are priced out of homes by (generally) people retiring into the area.
 

jayah

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I saw 1J27 was the train after mine at Wolverhampton last night and checked RTT to see it would arrive into Pwllheli at 2359!

I was thinking who'd be likely to be on it at this time of year and at that time of night especially beyond Barmouth.

Then I was thinking about all the other rural branches across the country last trains of the day and what their figures would be.

Have you been on a last train of the day on these rural branches?
I was on this before the pandemic and it picked up a substantial number of workers from the food processing factory at Tywyn (IIRC) who had finished at 10pm heading home to various stations like Barmouth.
 

DarloRich

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i have never managed to have a later Marston Vale line service to myself but I have been one of only a handful of passengers. Oddly the last train is busier than ones at say 2100
 

yorksrob

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i have never managed to have a later Marston Vale line service to myself but I have been one of only a handful of passengers. Oddly the last train is busier than ones at say 2100

Closer to chucking out time I expect.
 

Essan

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Similarly the 1823 (or thereabouts) Scotrail departure from Glasgow Queen Street which eventually arrives into Mallaig at or around 2339. Wonder what the patronage is beyond Fort William?

Mid week in winter, very few after Corpach.

There'll usually be a few people board at Ft William for Banavie and Corpach, but rare for anyone to board elsewhere (although not sure whether there might be a few get on at Arisaig or Morar for Mallaig?)

In summer, especially Fri and Sat nights, there'll be a few more travelling through to Mallaig. And it's even been known for someone other than myself to disembark at Lochailort!

Of course, the main custom for the service is for Ft William. But the train has to continue on to Mallaig anyway in order to form the morning train south.
 

RPI

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The last couple of trips to Exmouth mon-thu can be around 50% full with mostly long distance travellers, but Fridays and Saturdays from Central can be rammed, last Barnstaple is quiet other than Friday and Saturday which can be very busy heading towards Barnstaple.

Last couple of trips on the St Ives will be virtually empty in the winter but very busy leaving St Ives during summer.
 

Flying Snail

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More recently the last train from London to Holyhead seemed pretty empty after leaving Chester.

That isn't the last train from Chester to Holyhead though, there are 3 more with one just before 23.00 and a very late train at 00.35
 

The exile

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i have never managed to have a later Marston Vale line service to myself but I have been one of only a handful of passengers. Oddly the last train is busier than ones at say 2100
I should imagine this applies in lots of places. A 21.00 train is too late for most people to start an evening out and too early to finish thus depressing figures (ok - I know it’s an over-simplification.)
 

Llandudno

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That isn't the last train from Chester to Holyhead though, there are 3 more with one just before 23.00 and a very late train at 00.35
The late/very late trains between Chester and Bangor (or most certainly to Rhyl!) can be somewhat raucous and very busy on Friday and Saturday nights, daily during the summer holidays and Chester race days…!
 

Horizon22

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but not many pubs down the line - only really from Bedford

The last train is always artifically busier than other trains because it is the "last train" so people make plans around it.
 

Krokodil

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I think past Bangor these days near enough is, most of the ferry foot passenger traffic has gone to the low cost airlines.
Not really the same as those the thread started with. And being pretty busy until the penultimate stop (Avanti don't serve the requests) is far removed from some of the ghost trains described.

The last train is always artifically busier than other trains because it is the "last train" so people make plans around it.
Only up to a point. The last Holyhead train (00:40ish from Chester) is generally much quieter (in both senses of the word) than the 1W98. Some of that will be boat traffic as the former isn't a connection but the latter is busier with revellers too.
 

Whisky Papa

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The last train is always artifically busier than other trains because it is the "last train" so people make plans around it.
I used to use the last train back from Manchester Victoria to Todmorden (c2317-2320 over the years) when it was an hour after the previous one. Now there are also departures at 2257 and 2303, I will invariably go for those, as a 20 minute sacrifice of my friends' company seems a worthwhile trade for the security of having three possible trains home instead of one.

Loadings wise, the 2257 is generally rather quiet, unless there has been something on at the Arena. Presumably more after football, but I wouldn't be in Manchester the same night as a football match anyway!
 

paul1609

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Mid week in winter, very few after Corpach.

There'll usually be a few people board at Ft William for Banavie and Corpach, but rare for anyone to board elsewhere (although not sure whether there might be a few get on at Arisaig or Morar for Mallaig?)

In summer, especially Fri and Sat nights, there'll be a few more travelling through to Mallaig. And it's even been known for someone other than myself to disembark at Lochailort!

Of course, the main custom for the service is for Ft William. But the train has to continue on to Mallaig anyway in order to form the morning train south.
Im a few years out of date now but in winter this train didnt really load very well from Glasgow certainly less than 25% sometimes Id be the only person getting off at Garelochead on a busy day there would be 5 of us.
 

mossleyhill

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Not just rural trains- I regularly get the last Merseyrail service from Hunts Cross (post play rehearsal) and 9/10 times have the whole train to myself until reaching Central.
 

cheekybifta

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Not really the same as those the thread started with. And being pretty busy until the penultimate stop (Avanti don't serve the requests) is far removed from some of the ghost trains described.


Only up to a point. The last Holyhead train (00:40ish from Chester) is generally much quieter (in both senses of the word) than the 1W98. Some of that will be boat traffic as the former isn't a connection but the latter is busier with revellers too.

Much earlier on a Saturday when the demand seems to be at its peak, I guess it's to do with where the units need to be for a Sunday service.
- 2126 from Chester for Holyhead and the request stops before Bangor.
- 2032 for the Anglesey request stops.
- 2239 only runs to Llandudno Junction but I think TfW run a bus, every week, on to Bangor and Holyhead. This one can be packed like sardines, even sometimes with two units working it together.
 

mmh

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2126 from Chester for Holyhead and the request stops before Bangor.

The stops before Bangor (Conwy, Penmaenmawr and Llanfairfechan) are no longer request stops, that was changed late last year.
 

northwichcat

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The late/very late trains between Chester and Bangor (or most certainly to Rhyl!) can be somewhat raucous and very busy on Friday and Saturday nights, daily during the summer holidays and Chester race days…!

That can be the case with many routes. I was at Piccadilly around 10pm on Tuesday night and most Northern services were leaving almost empty. On a different night some of the same services would have been full and standing. Saying that if local services did finish at 8pm on Tuesday because of low demand, I wouldn't have been in Manchester and I wouldn't have been spending money in a small independent pub that was running a comedy night.
 

sleepy_hollow

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I used to use the last train back from Manchester Victoria to Todmorden (c2317-2320 over the years) when it was an hour after the previous one. Now there are also departures at 2257 and 2303, I will invariably go for those, as a 20 minute sacrifice of my friends' company seems a worthwhile trade for the security of having three possible trains home instead of one.
...
This is an important point. A service has to be viewed as a whole. An important role of the last train is as backup for the penultimate, reassuring people that if they do miss the penultimate they will still get home. I rarely plan anything that requires the last train, or the last bus, or car park that closes early. For example, if using Weston as the railhead for a cycle tour I will usually treat the 1810 to Sea Mills as the train to aim for, even in summer, with the 1910 as reserve. That is the last direct train, and before cycle carriage conditions on the 8xx series were relaxed the later Cardiff trains would not have been possible, quite apart from the change at Temple Meads.

Are there any know estimate of the effect of the nearly empty last train on usage levels for the whole day?
 
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yorksrob

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Lots of people just need the last train. It should be held in preference to all others.
 

Krokodil

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Much earlier on a Saturday when the demand seems to be at its peak, I guess it's to do with where the units need to be for a Sunday service.
No, it'll be down to Network Rail wanting the line closed for overnight engineering work.
 

H&I

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I remember travelling on a late evening Greater Anglia service from Lowestoft to Norwich. Between Oulton Broad North and Norwich, there was only one other passenger.
 

dk1

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I remember travelling on a late evening Greater Anglia service from Lowestoft to Norwich. Between Oulton Broad North and Norwich, there was only one other passenger.

That’s quite normal in that direction late evening. Often nobody at all on board apart from us traincrew.

Back in the 80/90s those trains didn’t even bother to stop at intermediate stations instead slowing down to see if anyone waiting on the platform then accelerating away as nobody onboard to get off either. These days that would be classed as a failure to call (FTC) :rolleyes:
 

Altnabreac

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Similarly the 1823 (or thereabouts) Scotrail departure from Glasgow Queen Street which eventually arrives into Mallaig at or around 2339. Wonder what the patronage is beyond Fort William?

I used that service about 2 years ago after attending a dinner party in Glenfinnan to get to my hotel in Lochailort.

Probably a fairly niche market though.

Chatted to the driver as I boarded to request the Lochailort stop just in case I didn’t manage to catch the guard before Lochailort.
 

geoffk

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The last couple of trips to Exmouth mon-thu can be around 50% full with mostly long distance travellers, but Fridays and Saturdays from Central can be rammed, last Barnstaple is quiet other than Friday and Saturday which can be very busy heading towards Barnstaple.

Last couple of trips on the St Ives will be virtually empty in the winter but very busy leaving St Ives during summer.
It's half hourly to Exmouth now in the evenings (except Sundays). Not sure if it counts as rural though! Four of the stations are in Exeter while buses don't get into Lympstone village.
 
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