Passenger rail services could return to East Cleveland for the first time in 50 years

[03_179]

Just been sent this by a mate in the area.

Feesible ?

Passenger rail services could return to East Cleveland for the first time in 50 years.

Redcar and Cleveland Council has commissioned a study to see "how feasible" a regular service would be on the line used by the Boulby freight train.

Campaigners say it's a "unique journey that people will want to take"- linking communities and boosting the area's tourism.

The route itself takes in stunning scenery, along the cliffs between Carlin Howe and Brotton.

Only one person currently gets to see it; the Freightliner train driver moving ICL Boulby's polyhalite and rock salt from the mine to Tees Dock, up to six times a day.

But that could all change if the numbers stack up, with a cost analysis due by early summer.

Ideas include platforms or 'halts' at Saltburn West close to Saltburn Learning Campus, Skelton, Brotton, Loftus, Carlin Howe and Easington.

...

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/passenger-rail-services-could-return-17825341

 

[a_c_skinner]

Brotton, Skinnigrove and Loftus. No. Think not. Nothing beyond for park and ride.

 

[ainsworth74]

I mean they're not wrong, I've done the line to Boulby on a railtour and it is a very scenic run.

Certainly it's something I'd like to see and some of those communities even with their bus service are very isolated from the rest of Teesside. So from a social point of view it would have to be a good thing.

Though it's not without it's problems. Obviously all the stations are gone, most of them completely. So it would require all new stations throughout. The idea of a "Saltburn West" is interesting but it'll be tight to fit a station in the available land without some compulsory purchase.

I also suspect that there will also be issues fitting an hourly passenger service (which would seem to be the minimum in my view to make the scheme even vaguely worthwhile) amongst all the freight. The line is single track throughout now from around a mile after Saltburn West Junction all the way to Boulby mine apart from one passing loop at Crag Hall signal box (located just before Skinningrove Steel Works). It would also be tough to reinstate the double track as I believe all the bridges on the line along with a viaduct are all single track so you'd be into replacing them as well.

It's certainly a good idea in my view but it is a scheme that would not be without it's difficulties/costs and is it really the best use of scarce funding?

 

[bramling]

Brotton, Skinnigrove and Loftus. No. Think not. Nothing beyond for park and ride.

The only hope would be some kind of through service to Whitby, however from a passenger point of view this duplicates the existing Middlesbrough-Whitby via Grosmont route, which is itself a basket case, and local demand I'd imagine would be fairly minimal, notwithstanding any fine views. Then there's the very slight problem of several substantial viaducts having been demolished between Boulby and Whitby, plus two tunnels through dubious ground.

Must as Loftus (etc) need better links with the outside world, unfortunately the economics are highly unlikely to stack up.

 

[johnnychips]

I can’t imagine there is that much freight on the line, but they’re hardly tourist destinations, and the half-hourly bus (if it is still half-hourly) seems more convenient.

 

[158756]

Brotton, Skinnigrove and Loftus. No. Think not. Nothing beyond for park and ride.

It'd be no less logical than the line existing beyond Redcar to serve Marske and Saltburn (the combined population of Skelton+Brotton+Loftus is slightly bigger than Marske+Saltburn). The handful of freight trains each day shouldn't be impossible to path a service around. It looks simply like many other proposed reopenings - even though the line still exists the huge costs of stations and bringing neglected freight lines up to standard are prohibitive for all but the very best schemes, to the extent that no line in England has been able to justify it for what, 20,30 years now.

 

[ainsworth74]

I can’t imagine there is that much freight on the line, but they’re hardly tourist destinations, and the half-hourly bus (if it is still half-hourly) seems more convenient.

There's about twelve trains per day running at the moment and paths for around twice that. It isn't as quiet as you might think.

 

[DarloRich]

I can’t imagine there is that much freight on the line, but they’re hardly tourist destinations, and the half-hourly bus (if it is still half-hourly) seems more convenient.

There is a lot of freight on that line to the potash mine and the steel works. Check out crag hall on rtt

I mean they're not wrong, I've done the line to Boulby on a railtour and it is a very scenic run.

Certainly it's something I'd like to see and some of those communities even with their bus service are very isolated from the rest of Teesside. So from a social point of view it would have to be a good thing.

Though it's not without it's problems. Obviously all the stations are gone, most of them completely. So it would require all new stations throughout. The idea of a "Saltburn West" is interesting but it'll be tight to fit a station in the available land without some compulsory purchase.

I also suspect that there will also be issues fitting an hourly passenger service (which would seem to be the minimum in my view to make the scheme even vaguely worthwhile) amongst all the freight. The line is single track throughout now from around a mile after Saltburn West Junction all the way to Boulby mine apart from one passing loop at Crag Hall signal box (located just before Skinningrove Steel Works). It would also be tough to reinstate the double track as I believe all the bridges on the line along with a viaduct are all single track so you'd be into replacing them as well.

It's certainly a good idea in my view but it is a scheme that would not be without it's difficulties/costs and is it really the best use of scarce funding?

It simply isnt feasible for the reasons you describe. I have family in brotton & loftus & Skelton but this isnt going to fly.

I would rather the money was spent on trying to restore the health, education and employment prospects of the area. These communities are in serious trouble and if the steel works and the potash mine goes they will die. Trains are a luxury for these communities. They need practical support

Ps I would love this line open. It would help me a great deal but I think the communities need practical help now not money wasted on a railway line they cant use

 

[backontrack]

I'm glad they're looking at it.

But Rich is absolutely right.

 

[DarloRich]

Also the junction at Saltburn faces the wrong way

 

[Glenn1969]

I presume the pandemic would put schemes like this on the back burner?

 

[backontrack]

I presume the pandemic would put schemes like this on the back burner?

This was already on the back burner, so now I imagine it's no longer on the backburner. It's more like making a cup of tea only to leave it on a shelf and forget about it.

When we finally remember it (after quarantine) we'll either throw it away or just down it like a shot.

Less excessively flippantly, I think a lot of railway schemes or case studies will be put away for the time being. Let's hope this doesn't do for the Ashington and Blyth route among others.

 

[thenorthern]

I would think this line reopening is credible given it passes through the Redcar and the Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland constituencies. Both of which were Labour for ages and in particular Redcar was Labour from 1964 until 2010 then from 2015 until 2019. Today they are both Conservative and it's the kind of area that the Conservative Party wants to hold onto. Nearby Scarborough and Whitby is also a Conservative seat but was Labour during the Blair years.

I would expect this will be the case in many areas that were once considered solid Labour but voted Conservative last time they will get railway improvements in an attempt to keep the seats blue.

 

[billio]

There's about twelve trains per day running at the moment and paths for around twice that. It isn't as quiet as you might think.

And the trains I have seen are pretty slow.
Having been walking around that area on several occasions this winter, I would say the bus services are pretty good compared with elsewhere, especially when combined with a train journey to Saltburn.
The line was built as double track as far as Skinningrove/Carlin How as can be seen from the width of this viaduct. (There's a man dangling from a rope to give you an idea of scale.)

 

[Darandio]

The line was built as double track as far as Skinningrove/Carlin How as can be seen from the width of this viaduct. (There's a man dangling from a rope to give you an idea of scale.)

View attachment 77176

The several bridge renewals that have taken place more recently on this stretch have removed any chance of reinstating double track, and that's without the significant single line structure at Mill Bank

 

[darloscott]

I’ve often thought whether it would be possible to open passenger services on this line having been a permanent driver of the 5/5a bus service through the area for around 18 months. Aside from the economic issues mentioned previously I just don’t think there is much advantage to running trains over the existing very decent bus service (for the area) - not to mention the issues of serving Saltburn with potentially having to have two separate stations. The journey time would be more or less the same, existing freight services are timed at 25 mins from Crag Hall to Saltburn and then it’s roughly another 25 mins to Middlesbrough giving a journey time of 50 mins from Carlin How, while the 5 that I used to drive does the same journey in little more, being just under an hour

 

[37424]

Well watching question time last night you got the impression that Shapps is still very much up for Beeching style reopening infrastructure projects, however I would rate this a long way behind many only other projects that likely have much better financial numbers., and when it comes down to the nitty gritty of cost and the likely state of the economy going forward it will likely be little more than a token 1 or 2 schemes at most.

 

[ainsworth74]

The local newspaper with an update on what's happening (not much is my take but still):

'One train an hour' plan to link up one of Teesside's most isolated villages

Efforts to reopen the Boulby freight line to passengers between Saltburn and the village have continued during the coronavirus pandemic

www.gazettelive.co.uk

'One train an hour' plan to link up one of Teesside's most isolated villages

Efforts to reopen the Boulby freight line to passengers between Saltburn and the village have continued during the coronavirus pandemic

A study into bringing back passenger rail services in East Cleveland has suggested “one train an hour” to one of the region’s most isolated villages.

Efforts to reopen the Boulby freight line to passengers between Saltburn and the village have continued during the coronavirus pandemic.

But at the moment the only person who gets to see it is the Freightliner driver moving ICL Boulby’s polyhalite and rock salt from the potash mine to Tees Dock.

Cllr Wayne Davies told Monday night’s Loftus Town Council how modelling had gauged the stretch of the Whitby, Redcar and Middlesbrough Union Railway could link up Boulby with one passenger train every hour through the day.


The cabinet member at Redcar and Cleveland Council said: “That’s maintaining Boulby’s link - as well as five stops between Saltburn and Easington.

“It means we can have five stops along the route.


“Even though we’re under covid (conditions), we’re hoping to have a Northern Train to go up and down the route to judge exactly many times it can go up and down as well as the timings between stops.

“So far, it’s looking really positive - we’re really keen to see it progress now.”

Redcar and Cleveland Council commissioned a study on bringing back services following pressure from campaigners.

Concepts drawn up include platforms or “halts” at Saltburn West close to Saltburn Learning Campus, Skelton, Brotton, Loftus, Carlin Howe and Easington.

The idea behind the move is to offer better links for villagers as well as a chance for tourists to get along the coast to boost regeneration efforts.

But there is still plenty of work to be done on loops and infrastructure to allow freight and passenger services to run alongside each other.

Chiefs are hoping the effort may form part of Redcar and Cleveland and Middlesbrough Council’s joint bid for a “Roseberry Parkway” interchange between Nunthorpe and Guisborough.

One thing that did interest me is that they're thinking of going as far as Easington (a couple of miles further on from Loftus). Previously whenever this has been spoken about I'm fairly certain the proposals have always been to go only as far as Loftus.

 

[30907]

The local newspaper with an update on what's happening (not much is my take but still):

'One train an hour' plan to link up one of Teesside's most isolated villages

Efforts to reopen the Boulby freight line to passengers between Saltburn and the village have continued during the coronavirus pandemic

www.gazettelive.co.uk

One thing that did interest me is that they're thinking of going as far as Easington (a couple of miles further on from Loftus). Previously whenever this has been spoken about I'm fairly certain the proposals have always been to go only as far as Loftus.

The track is there, and a P+R at Easington might make sense as it's close to the main road.

 

[Glenn1969]

Is this actually on a funding list anywhere or just an aspiration ?

 

[ainsworth74]

The track is there, and a P+R at Easington might make sense as it's close to the main road.

Well there's track throughout that's why people go on about it But yes a P+R might be the idea but then again if you've got a car out there you'll probably drive to your destination (the roads are remarkably good between Loftus and Middlesbrough even if it's a bit slow) rather than take a train. But it can't be ruled out to be sure and makes more sense than actually serving Easington which isn't exactly a large place to begin with and the station wouldn't be that well sited (though there are worse).

Is this actually on a funding list anywhere or just an aspiration ?

I believe, but I'm open to correction, that currently it's an aspiration and doesn't feature on any of the various DfT schemes that are currently cooking.

 

[30907]

Well there's track throughout that's why people go on about it But yes a P+R might be the idea but then again if you've got a car out there you'll probably drive to your destination (the roads are remarkably good between Loftus and Middlesbrough even if it's a bit slow) rather than take a train. But it can't be ruled out to be sure and makes more sense than actually serving Easington which isn't exactly a large place to begin with and the station wouldn't be that well sited (though there are worse).

My thought process was: you would need some sort of P&R facility to tick a few boxes (and even a bus interchange, though in this country that's optimistic), and Loftus station is awkwardly sited from that point of view, whereas Easington would be easy to access from the main road.
Whether it's viable is another matter

 

[darloscott]

I think I’ve said this before but as much as I’d love to see it happen there’s simply no point unless we were to improve the line a huge amount to improve speeds. I’m fairly certain the journey time from Easington to Saltburn is not going to be any lower than 30 mins, and it’s roughly another 30 from there to Middlesbrough so you’re looking at an hour more or less. The existing buses do it in not much more and they’re not heaving (I used to drive them every day!) - there is a strong commuter flow towards Middlesbrough but during the day it tails off significantly.

 

[marsker]

I have to agree, I have a battle between heart and head here, in my heart I'd love to see it, but I can't see it being remotely viable. There are a number of obstacles:
The distance between Saltbuirn and Carlin How, where Crag Hall box is, adjacent to Skinningrove rolling mills, is about 3½ miles as the bus goes, and almost 7 as the train goes.
The line is limited to 30 mph throughout, with a number of sections as low as 10 mph
Fron the eastern end of Crag Hall loop, about ½ mile past Crag Hall box, the line is the property of Cleveland Potash Ltd and not Network Rail.
For the above reasons, I can't see this proposal achieving anything like a positive benefit/cost ratio.

 

[Tetchytyke]

For the above reasons, I can't see this proposal achieving anything like a positive benefit/cost ratio.

However the East Cleveland constituency it is in is a Tory marginal. That should tip the scales a bit.

 

[daodao]

The rail route seems to be very roundabout - presumably because of the contours - and doesn't serve the village centres particularly well.

If money is to be spent on reopening rail routes in East Cleveland, would it be better value to re-build Nunthorpe to Guisborough, and run a commuter service to Middleshrough? Much of the track bed still seems extant.

 

[James90012]

The rail route seems to be very roundabout - presumably because of the contours - and doesn't serve the village centres particularly well.

I money is to be spent on reopening rail routes in East Cleveland, would it be better value to re-build Nunthorpe to Guisborough, and run a commuter service to Middleshrough? Much of the track bed still seems extant.

I'd second that, if its one of the other Guisborough would make more sense as a priority.

I wonder though, as the track is actually there for this one, whether there could be a 6 months trial or something using temporary platforms. Cheap Class 230s or even derogated Pacers make this kind of thing far more realistic than the past options.