Passenger service lines that deserve to close

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Lankyline

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Whilst we would all love to see heavy rail passenger (and freight) lines reopened as demonstrated by the number of threads on this subject, surely not every line today justifies its existence, there must be some candidates for either for closure or conversation to tram or tram/train operation.

I would clarify this as those lines that do not provide a vital social or strategic need, so to kick this off I submit for your consideration,

Preston to Blackpool South, single tracked with just 1tph
Keep the line from Lytham to Blackpool south, converting to a tram operation and lift the rest from Lytham to Kirkham.
 
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yorksrob

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The only case I could see this being justifiable is where the service becomes obsolete due to a transport improvement. Dover Western Docks, being an example.

Therefore, as far as current services are closed, I would say, none of them.
 

ainsworth74

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Newhaven Marine and the little stub of line it uses could surely just go?
 

Bletchleyite

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Anything with a Parliamentary service arguably is not justified, if increasing that service to at least two-hourly (hourly in urban areas) is not justified.
 
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Whilst we would all love to see heavy rail passenger (and freight) lines reopened as demonstrated by the number of threads on this subject, surely not every line today justifies its existence, there must be some candidates for either for closure or conversation to tram or tram/train operation.

I would clarify this as those lines that do not provide a vital social or strategic need, so to kick this off I submit for your consideration,

Preston to Blackpool South, single tracked with just 1tph
Keep the line from Lytham to Blackpool south, converting to a tram operation and lift the rest from Lytham to Kirkham.

Blackpool South to Colne service.
The South Fylde line is very popular. It serves Blackpool South, Pleasure Beach, Lytham St Annes, etc to Preston and beyond.
It would be even more popular if there were 2 trains per hour, probably triple the number of passengers. It is absolutely rammed on busy Pleasure Beach days. Better trains would help too!!
It needs a dynamic passing loop between Lytham & St Annes to allow 2tph.
This would bring much benefit to those in South Shore, tourists, and work prospects outside of Blackpool.
The Blackpool trams are slow - average speed 11mph!
 

Lankyline

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Blackpool South to Colne service.
The South Fylde line is very popular. It serves Blackpool South, Pleasure Beach, Lytham St Annes, etc to Preston and beyond.
It would be even more popular if there were 2 trains per hour, probably triple the number of passengers. It is absolutely rammed on busy Pleasure Beach days. Better trains would help too!!
It needs a dynamic passing loop between Lytham & St Annes to allow 2tph.
This would bring much benefit to those in South Shore, tourists, and work prospects outside of Blackpool.
The Blackpool trams are slow - average speed 11mph!

I believe Blackpool council are still clinging onto the notion of conversion of the line as far as Lytham to tram, why not move the Colne service to North station and then run a connection from the proposed tram link to North with South station say somewhere near to the old Central site and run it down that large expanse of wasted ground called a car park.

Tram speed 11mph !! only just faster than a horse and carriage :lol:
 

GrimsbyPacer

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Don't close Blackpool South. What would happen when the Blackpool North line is being electrified? A back-up station and line always comes in handy. And your proposal would make Preston to Pleasure Beach/Airpost hard to travel between.
 

tsangpogorge

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How about the Bromley North branch and why is the West Highland line north of Hellensburgh and the Kyle line still open?
 

Lankyline

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Don't close Blackpool South. What would happen when the Blackpool North line is being electrified? A back-up station and line always comes in handy. And your proposal would make Preston to Pleasure Beach/Airpost hard to travel between.

Only two problems I can see with that, first Pleasure Beach is already served by trams and they are closer to the Pleasure Beach than Blackpool South and they shut the airport !
 

61653 HTAFC

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I don't know the area but would the line to Gunnislake fall into this ?

Unlikely, as the reason it was retained was poor roads in the area and I don't think they've improved much.

Formal closure of Newhaven Marine would be an improvement on the status-quo but I can't think of any others where investment and improvement wouldn't be a better option. Cardiff Bay might be a problem if the Valley Lines ever get wired (a 3-car EMU would be wasteful overkill) but even then complete closure would be a crazy decision.
 

HMS Ark Royal

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And they re-opened the airport!

Blackpool you mean?

Technically it never closed as there was always a member of staff in the ATC facility as well as full fire support on offer - it just merely closed the runways to operations

Full closure is, like those for rail stations, a complicated process
 
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Only two problems I can see with that, first Pleasure Beach is already served by trams and they are closer to the Pleasure Beach than Blackpool South and they shut the airport !

Most visitors to Pleasure Beach come from outside of Blackpool.
Preston to Pleasure Beach is far easier and cheaper. 5 minutes walk to East entrance.
North Station 30 + minutes walk. Or 5+ minutes walk to Promenade and £2 bus/tram each way. Plenty of moans when there is no Sunday service early in Season. I've heard that the South Line will have Sunday trains all year from now on.
 
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TrainfanBen

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Blackpool South to Colne service.
The South Fylde line is very popular. It serves Blackpool South, Pleasure Beach, Lytham St Annes, etc to Preston and beyond.
It would be even more popular if there were 2 trains per hour, probably triple the number of passengers. It is absolutely rammed on busy Pleasure Beach days. Better trains would help too!!
It needs a dynamic passing loop between Lytham & St Annes to allow 2tph.
This would bring much benefit to those in South Shore, tourists, and work prospects outside of Blackpool.
The Blackpool trams are slow - average speed 11mph!

Although I suppose while some journeys are rammed some are nearly empty past Preston.
I completely agree The South Fylde line is an incredibly charming little route but I'm not sure outside of the daily peaks or high summer holiday season, 2 trains per hour are justified, the benefit of building a passing loop might not be high enough.

On the topic of tram conversion, I think for an inter urban journey its not appropriate.
 

najaB

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How about the Bromley North branch and why is the West Highland line north of Hellensburgh and the Kyle line still open?
In the case of the Kyle line, it often provides the only reliable transport for the communities it serves. I'm pretty sure the same is true of the WHL.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
How about the Wimbledon & Sutton Railway?

This could be added on to the Northern Line as it runs just south of Morden, however, I'm not sure of how deep below the surface the LU tracks are and if it would be possible for a gentle rising gradient to connect to the W&SR.

Alternatively, in combination with the possible rebuilding of Wimbledon station (I believe it is as part of the Chelsea - Hackney Railway when it gets built), the Metropolitan District Railway (the present day LU District Line) could take over the W&SR as was the original intention when the Act of Parliament was passed for its construction all those years ago.

The local residents along the route of the W&SR would have an increase in frequency from the present day every 30 minutes in each direction to at least every 10 minutes or higher. Haydons Road station could be transferred to a short extension of the Croydon Tramlink, and possibly onwards to Tooting as well so as to maintain metal boxes attached to metal wheels that run on metal rails along the Wimbledon - Haydons Road - Tooting corridor.
 

61653 HTAFC

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How about the Wimbledon & Sutton Railway?

This could be added on to the Northern Line as it runs just south of Morden, however, I'm not sure of how deep below the surface the LU tracks are and if it would be possible for a gentle rising gradient to connect to the W&SR.

Alternatively, in combination with the possible rebuilding of Wimbledon station (I believe it is as part of the Chelsea - Hackney Railway when it gets built), the Metropolitan District Railway (the present day LU District Line) could take over the W&SR as was the original intention when the Act of Parliament was passed for its construction all those years ago.

The local residents along the route of the W&SR would have an increase in frequency from the present day every 30 minutes in each direction to at least every 10 minutes or higher. Haydons Road station could be transferred to a short extension of the Croydon Tramlink, and possibly onwards to Tooting as well so as to maintain metal boxes attached to metal wheels that run on metal rails along the Wimbledon - Haydons Road - Tooting corridor.

Morden LU station is on the surface, but descends into tunnel pretty much immediately. If you were to extend you'd probably need to build a new sub surface station and have the new climb to surface kept within the footprint of the existing national rail line, to avoid having to demolish a faìr bit of Morden itself.
 

swt_passenger

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How about the Wimbledon & Sutton Railway?

This could be added on to the Northern Line as it runs just south of Morden, however, I'm not sure of how deep below the surface the LU tracks are and if it would be possible for a gentle rising gradient to connect to the W&SR.

Alternatively, in combination with the possible rebuilding of Wimbledon station (I believe it is as part of the Chelsea - Hackney Railway when it gets built), the Metropolitan District Railway (the present day LU District Line) could take over the W&SR as was the original intention when the Act of Parliament was passed for its construction all those years ago.

The local residents along the route of the W&SR would have an increase in frequency from the present day every 30 minutes in each direction to at least every 10 minutes or higher. Haydons Road station could be transferred to a short extension of the Croydon Tramlink, and possibly onwards to Tooting as well so as to maintain metal boxes attached to metal wheels that run on metal rails along the Wimbledon - Haydons Road - Tooting corridor.

Transferring a route from NR to LU or trams isn't really a closure in the context of this thread though, is it?
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Transferring a route from NR to LU or trams isn't really a closure in the context of this thread though, is it?

I refer you to the opening post, and it is how I interpreted it in reference to the last part of the first paragraph, and the whole of the last paragraph too.

Whilst we would all love to see heavy rail passenger (and freight) lines reopened as demonstrated by the number of threads on this subject, surely not every line today justifies its existence, there must be some candidates for either for closure or conversation to tram or tram/train operation.

I would clarify this as those lines that do not provide a vital social or strategic need, so to kick this off I submit for your consideration,

Preston to Blackpool South, single tracked with just 1tph
Keep the line from Lytham to Blackpool south, converting to a tram operation and lift the rest from Lytham to Kirkham.
 

backontrack

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How about the Bromley North branch and why is the West Highland line north of Hellensburgh and the Kyle line still open?

You should go up to Fort William, Oban, Mallaig and Kyle and tell people your opinion. Oh no, my mistake, you already have because you already think that these she be closed and obviously you've spoken to the tons of people every year who use them. :roll:
 

Lankyline

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Blackpool you mean?

Technically it never closed as there was always a member of staff in the ATC facility as well as full fire support on offer - it just merely closed the runways to operations

Full closure is, like those for rail stations, a complicated process

True, but probably should have clarified that the airport lost its major commercial airlines but still retains Bond helicopters for the gas/oil rigs, NW air ambulance and one small airline, Citywings, flying to IOM & Belfast, hardly a regional hub airport that would justify passenger numbers from the railway.
 

deltic

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I would have a rule that for every station/line that is closed another station should be opened

Candidates for closure would be

Liskeard - Looe
Barton on Humber branch
Blaenau Ffestiniog branch
Heyham Harbour
Girvan-Stranrear
Whitby Branch beyond Nunthorpe
 

61653 HTAFC

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I would have a rule that for every station/line that is closed another station should be opened

Candidates for closure would be

Liskeard - Looe
Barton on Humber branch
Blaenau Ffestiniog branch
Heyham Harbour
Girvan-Stranrear
Whitby Branch beyond Nunthorpe

Looking solely at the finances I can see your point with some of these, particularly the Conwy Valley which gets washed out every winter and is a bit of an anomaly from an operation point of view. Whitby though I think would do reasonably well if it had an hourly or even two hourly service. It'd still need a subsidy but it could potentially be a real asset to the communities it serves.
 
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