Passenger Threatened To Stab Conductor near Lea Green on 15 June 2021

AntoniC

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Source : Liverpool Echo 06/07/21 Passenger threatened to stab conductor
A train passenger threatened to stab and kill a conductor after she told him how much a ticket from Liverpool to Newcastle would cost.

Abdi Mohammed turned violent when the employee was carrying out a routine ticket check on Tuesday, June 15, as he enquired how much the journey would cost to Newcastle after initially ignoring her.

When she told him the price he erupted with fury, began swearing and threatened to stab and kill her.

She immediately backed away and ensured passengers’ safety by taking them into another carriage and locking the doors to separate them from Mohammed.

The incident happened close to Lea Green in St Helens.

Last week, Mohammed, 26, of no fixed abode, admitted a public order offence at Sefton Magistrates Court.

He was sentenced to 12 weeks in jail.

Investigating officer PC Richard King said: “This was a terrifying experience for the victim who was simply going about her work duties and she remains traumatised by Mohammed’s threats.

"“Her bravery in immediately looking after the safety of her passengers is testament to her character.

"“No one should be threatened with violence while just doing their job.

"We take any abuse towards members of railway staff seriously and it will not be tolerated on the network under any circumstances.

“I would urge anyone who experiences or witnesses violent behaviour on the railway to text us on 61016. In an emergency, always call 999.”

TransPennine Express Customer Experience Director, Kathryn O’Brien said “This was a really terrible incident against a member of the team and I am pleased that this man is now being punished for their threatening and terrifying actions.

"We will not tolerate any abuse and will continue to work with the BTP to ensure that everyone onboard our trains and at our stations are protected and supported when they are travelling with us.”
Thats a quick turnaround for justice , offence on the 15th June 2021 and also jailed for threatening to stab the conductor.

What are people`s thoughts on this ?
 
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ExRes

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What a pathetic non sentence, it defies belief that someone can behave in that manner and receive such a minimal penalty
 

duncanp

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We can all be bit frustrated with the railways when things go wrong, such as delays, cancellations and engineering work, or with the COVID related rules such as masks and social distancing on trains.

But there can never be an excuse for this type of behaviour, and it is right that the person concerned has been sent to prison.

If anyone witnesses such behaviour on their travels, I would urge them to give a statement to police and be prepared to act as a witness in any prosecution that may arise.
 

deltic

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Sounds like someone with mental health issues who may be homeless and for whom a short prison sentence is a pointless exercise. As a society we seem to have completely failed people like this and its innocent bystanders who bear the brunt of the fall out.
 

duncanp

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Sounds like someone with mental health issues who may be homeless and for whom a short prison sentence is a pointless exercise. As a society we seem to have completely failed people like this and its innocent bystanders who bear the brunt of the fall out.

The prison service need to look into this whilst he is in prison, and if necessary he should be given the appropriate support, both during his sentence and after release.
 

3rd rail land

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Sounds like someone with mental health issues who may be homeless and for whom a short prison sentence is a pointless exercise. As a society we seem to have completely failed people like this and its innocent bystanders who bear the brunt of the fall out.
He should have been sentenced to time in a psychiatric/mental health unit/hospital. As you say prison isn't the right place for this man. Hopefully he'll be subject to a full mental assessment.
 

mikeg

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Must've been awful to be the conductor in this situation and I really feel for her (and have to congratulate her on responding well to the situation) but at the same time I think this man needs help as well as punishment. I hope they'll pick up on this when he's in prison but won't hold my breath.
Of course I'm not shrink, he could just be a nasty piece of work (in which case prison alone is what's needed), but that's not my general impression.
 

bunnahabhain

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Source : Liverpool Echo 06/07/21 Passenger threatened to stab conductor

Thats a quick turnaround for justice , offence on the 15th June 2021 and also jailed for threatening to stab the conductor.

What are people`s thoughts on this ?
I had a chap subject me to homophobic abuse, we were in court less than a week later as he was arrested from my train and remanded in custody until I'd given my statement and CPS had given the go ahead to prosecute. He subsequently turned up 2hrs late to the court hearing, pleaded guilty and got a slap on the wrist. But still, it showed that it won't be tolerated.

Provided you can get them arrested immediately and its a fairly simple case the justice system can be very quick.
 

riceuten

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I suspect that there are enduring mental health issues involved here, and that incarceration in a mainstream prison would do little or nothing to address them.
 

nlogax

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Gone to prison - good.

12 week sentence - crap.

Likelihood he'll be out sooner and doing the exact same thing again as prison isn't the deterrent and he obviously has issues that won't be supported in a timely fashion, if at all - high.
 

riceuten

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If he has enduring mental health issues, and these are not being addressed, then mainstream prison isn't appropriate.
 

Ash Bridge

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What a pathetic non sentence, it defies belief that someone can behave in that manner and receive such a minimal penalty
Gone to prison - good.

12 week sentence - crap.

Likelihood he'll be out sooner and doing the exact same thing again as prison isn't the deterrent and he obviously has issues that won't be supported in a timely fashion, if at all - high.
Absolutely agree!
 

nlogax

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If he has enduring mental health issues, and these are not being addressed, then mainstream prison isn't appropriate.

I consider it absolutely appropriate for the protection of the public, certainly less appropriate for the treatment of any MH condition he may have.
 

riceuten

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I consider it absolutely appropriate for the protection of the public, certainly less appropriate for the treatment of any MH condition he may have.
He needs to be in a secure unit. If he's in prison, he will be brutalised.

I know this makes sense to people with a Daily Express/Daily Mail "eye for an eye"/"lock them up and throw away the key" view of justice, but 12 weeks in a mainstream prison will turn him into a much bigger problem than that.
 

61653 HTAFC

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He needs to be in a secure unit. If he's in prison, he will be brutalised.

I know this makes sense to people with a Daily Express/Daily Mail "eye for an eye"/"lock them up and throw away the key" view of justice, but 12 weeks in a mainstream prison will turn him into a much bigger problem than that.
I'd be intrigued as to how the "eye for an eye" brigade would deal with someone who has issued a threat (horrible as it is) that they did not have the means to carry out... :rolleyes:

Please note that I'm not defending this person's actions nor downplaying the trauma that the staff member suffered.
 

AlterEgo

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If he has enduring mental health issues, and these are not being addressed, then mainstream prison isn't appropriate.
It depends on the mental health issues. Either way, being in prison means he can’t harm any members of the public again, even for a short time.
 

ExRes

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He needs to be in a secure unit. If he's in prison, he will be brutalised.

I know this makes sense to people with a Daily Express/Daily Mail "eye for an eye"/"lock them up and throw away the key" view of justice, but 12 weeks in a mainstream prison will turn him into a much bigger problem than that.

I'm assuming that you know this individual then, if not then how can you be so convinced that he has mental health issues? especially considering your post #13
 

Robertj21a

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Please could the various posters clarify how many of them have suitable medical qualifications. Thank you.
 

Need2

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Why do people seem to assume he had a ‘mental health problem’?
No fixed abode means absolutely nothing these days and because he threatened someone and was NFA, it certainly doesn’t mean he has problems.
Some people are just born to be complete wastes of oxygen and do exactly how they please, when they please and do not care about the consequences of there actions or care for
anything except for themselves.
It’s about time people see some others for what they are.
 

ExRes

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Why do people seem to assume he had a ‘mental health problem’?
No fixed abode means absolutely nothing these days and because he threatened someone and was NFA, it certainly doesn’t mean he has problems.
Some people are just born to be complete wastes of oxygen and do exactly how they please, when they please and do not care about the consequences of there actions or care for
anything except for themselves.
It’s about time people see some others for what they are.

Exactly, anyone who does anything now gets a free 'mental health' pass instead of taking responsibilty for their own actions
 

XAM2175

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I'd like to make a note that while the increased levels of understanding and tolerance in society for mental ill-health are welcome improvements, it can be unhelpful - and even stigmatising - to attribute actions like this to mental illness without there being a solid indication that the attribution is correct.

We have no information to support conclusions of the passenger being either mentally ill or a habitual criminal.
 

riceuten

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No-one with "normal" thought processes would become violent when told a train fare.
 

Tazi Hupefi

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No-one with "normal" thought processes would become violent when told a train fare.
I think you'd be surprised how many people who present as perfectly pleasant, and professional can melt down over the smallest of issues in a flash. This ranges from emotional meltdown, tears, panic attacks, hysteria etc to the aggressive/offensive spectrum, such as this case.

There's a societal issue with stress and anxiety (and in some cases a sense of entitlement) that causes ordinarily placid people to lose control temporarily and demonstrate some unacceptable or concerning behaviours.

A surprising number of people (more than you'd imagine, but a minority) are just thoroughly unpleasant people, and will go through life being miserable, and causing misery to others. Often, they have an uncanny ability to meet other very unpleasant people who often permanently and grievously put them out of said misery, or give them a reason to be genuinely miserable, whilst recovering from a rearranged assortment of body parts.

Also think about the culture in certain parts of the country, where a knife attack against a youth is seen as a proportionate response to being looked at "funny", or being in "their" territory.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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The prison service need to look into this whilst he is in prison, and if necessary he should be given the appropriate support, both during his sentence and after release.
Can I draw a comparison to Usman Khan, who had been released from prison on licence and allowed to attend an Offender Rehabilitation Conference at Fishmonger's Hall in London, where he attacked attendees with knives strapped to his wrists, killing two people. He was apprehended on London Bridge whilst fleeing from the scene by three members of the public before the police took action that ended his life as he claimed he had a suicide vest that he would activate.
 

Need2

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No-one with "normal" thought processes would become violent when told a train fare.
Some people are just bad though.
Anyone who acts outside of the ‘norm’ isn’t necessarily the victim of mental health issues.
 

Tazi Hupefi

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Other point I would make, in relation to my previous post, is that the emotion which will have been most at play here is likely to be one of embarrassment. The offender has first of all been caught without a ticket, and secondly is unable to afford the ticket (in all likelihood), with this playing out in a pretty public, enclosed space.

To compensate for the embarrassment, the offender will likely have felt that the only way to gain control of that situation is through fear and violence, making sure everyone in earshot thinks he's a big, strong man, deflecting the embarrassment.

It's a pretty common human response, albeit not usually to such an extent where people feel genuinely threatened and endangered. Normally it just transpires as argumentative behaviour and trying to belittle the person in the position of "authority", or, as above, defeat, which results in emotional outbursts of tears and upset.
 

175mph

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Exactly, anyone who does anything now gets a free 'mental health' pass instead of taking responsibilty for their own actions
I have some quite bad mental health issues, but would never even consider causing harm to anyone around me, especially just because I don't like the answer to something.

People don't realize how thankless some jobs are, especially on the railway. :(
 

matt_world2004

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I consider it absolutely appropriate for the protection of the public, certainly less appropriate for the treatment of any MH condition he may have.
Secure hospitals for the mentally ill rather than prison. With a " sentence " based on treatment progress rather than an fixed amount of time
 

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