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Passenger Trains delayed by Freight Trains

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ComUtoR

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The most common delay I report is by far 'awaiting passengers'
 

ChiefPlanner

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Yes, that is one of the reasons that freight was on a steep declining curve.
Now that coal has virtually gone, a lot of modern freight is high value merchandise and it deserves its place in the queue.


The collapse of the extractive and manufacturing industries may have had just a bit to do with it. Remember under BR regulation and resource policies , Speedlink and Freightliner trains had equal priority. Much more so than a lumbering class 9 35 mph freight with unbraked wagons.

I once delayed a class 2 passenger train by letting one of these out in front of it , somewhere in South Wales, unfortunately the then Divisional Manager was on board going to some public meeting - a "please explain" came the next day via the old school District Inspector (who was in charge of my training) - he worked it out all right (and I put my hand up) , we blamed it on stiff points , to be fair it was January with severe frosts.
 

westv

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The most common delay I report is by far 'awaiting passengers'

As I said before all I can report is my own experience of numerous commuting years - not once have I heard this given as a reason for a delayed train.
 

swaldman

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Excuse the ignorant question, but is there an explanation of the "class 1/2/...9" categories people are referring to that somebody could link to? Thanks.
 

LAX54

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If they admitted to 'waiting passengers' then bang goes any claim for delay against NR! !
 

Domeyhead

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This is interesting because it works both ways. At Basingstoke for instance there is pressure on the signallers to slot the frequent down Freightliners emerging from the the Reading line onto the already congested Southampton line especially during the afternoon peaks. They can't let the freights stand on the Reading line as there are XCTs and the Reading shuttle stuck behind the freights, so they will often let the down intermodals onto the up slow line (platform 1) where they run wrong line for a mile west of Basingstoke until they can cross three lines to the down slow where the signaller holds them just before the slow and fast lines merge at Battledown Flyover. I've seen freights held while three passenger services ran past before the freight was allowed to proceed southbound again. BUT havIing let the freight clear Basingstoke it would have at least 5 or even 10 minutes headway plus a few ,miles on the following fast train - long enough at its 75mph top speed to get to the loop lines south of Micheldever where it could be held for less time while the fast overtook, and from there it could emerge again in front of the all stations stopper and get to Southampton 30 minutes earlier. I asked a freight driver why this was so and he just shrugged his shoulders and said it was a bit frustrating. I suspect on a busy shift the last thing on anyone's mind is a bit of "creative pathing".
 

edwin_m

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BUT havIing let the freight clear Basingstoke it would have at least 5 or even 10 minutes headway plus a few ,miles on the following fast train - long enough at its 75mph top speed to get to the loop lines south of Micheldever where it could be held for less time while the fast overtook, and from there it could emerge again in front of the all stations stopper and get to Southampton 30 minutes earlier. I asked a freight driver why this was so and he just shrugged his shoulders and said it was a bit frustrating. I suspect on a busy shift the last thing on anyone's mind is a bit of "creative pathing".
Don't underestimate the time it takes for a freight train to get up to speed, especially on diesel power. On occasion looping is counterproductive because by the time the freight has got up to speed out of the loop the next passenger is right behind it. Slow speed loop turnouts don't help either.
 

Minilad

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This is interesting because it works both ways. At Basingstoke for instance there is pressure on the signallers to slot the frequent down Freightliners emerging from the the Reading line onto the already congested Southampton line especially during the afternoon peaks. They can't let the freights stand on the Reading line as there are XCTs and the Reading shuttle stuck behind the freights, so they will often let the down intermodals onto the up slow line (platform 1) where they run wrong line for a mile west of Basingstoke until they can cross three lines to the down slow where the signaller holds them just before the slow and fast lines merge at Battledown Flyover. I've seen freights held while three passenger services ran past before the freight was allowed to proceed southbound again. BUT havIing let the freight clear Basingstoke it would have at least 5 or even 10 minutes headway plus a few ,miles on the following fast train - long enough at its 75mph top speed to get to the loop lines south of Micheldever where it could be held for less time while the fast overtook, and from there it could emerge again in front of the all stations stopper and get to Southampton 30 minutes earlier. I asked a freight driver why this was so and he just shrugged his shoulders and said it was a bit frustrating. I suspect on a busy shift the last thing on anyone's mind is a bit of "creative pathing".

The Reading line is bi-directional at the Basingstoke end. A freight held there potentially wouldn't get in the way as a train behind could be routed around it. Indeed I have been on a fair few occasions
 

Dren Ahmeti

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The Reading line is bi-directional at the Basingstoke end. A freight held there potentially wouldn't get in the way as a train behind could be routed around it. Indeed I have been on a fair few occasions
Doesn't happen in practice during the peak, I personally witnessed a Freight (679D) stopped on the Up Westbury waiting for a path eastbound onto the Up Relief (via Platform 12), on Friday.
There was a queue of about 3 trains behind it, another freight, an XC and a local stopper ;)
None of them used the bi-directional Down Westbury as they were all waiting for a turn on the left path, and it would've conflicted with the other movements!

Edit: Ignore me, I'm talking about the Reading West end!
 

ComUtoR

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As I said before all I can report is my own experience of numerous commuting years - not once have I heard this given as a reason for a delayed train.

I'm coming from an internal perspective. Its what I report to my TOCs delay attribution team. I've announced it to passengers on many many occasions, especially when they are holding doors open.

If they admitted to 'waiting passengers' then bang goes any claim for delay against NR! !

I'd be interested to know who gets the attribution when its reported to be delayed by passengers.
 

Highlandspring

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Delays coded RB "Passengers joining/alighting" go against the TOC operating the train rather than the station operator or NR.
 
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