Passenger tries to open door on wrong side of train at Guildford [21/11]

[greaterwest]

The 18.02 Waterloo to Woking service gets into Woking at 18.49. It's due to leave 18.51 ECS to Farnham. The 18.23 service to Basingstoke is due into Woking at either 18.52 or 18.53. There clearly isn't time to do massively long checks. Both trains are 12 car 450s.

As someone familiar with the process, I assure you the train is always thoroughly checked on arrival at Woking, with lookouts on the platform watching for people boarding.

 

[The Ham]

Likely best you don't mention any more details about this one incase people get into trouble.

As for running them in service on an adhoc basis, this would be difficult to work to, people would rely on them, and get themselves into alsorts of bother when it didn't run one day.

Don't worry I had assumed that giving details could get people into trouble so never have. Even if I said which stations I traveled between that wouldn't help as it was over 10 years ago (even then I can't remember exactly the year let alone the month or day) so there's a chance those involved have moved on.

Would they show up in the timetable? With a crossed fingers icon next to them?

I was thinking more along the lines of an on train announcement and a station announcement along the lines of "this trains has been changed so in addition to calling at (insert final stop in timetable) it will then call additional at (insert station name where the guard leaves the station)" or something like "There is an additional express service to (say) Basingstoke from platform (insert platform name) calling at Basingstoke only."

Yes regular travellers may get used to using them, but most people that would benefit are likely to be late night travellers and so will just be grateful that they get home quicker and see it more as a lottery win.

 

[infobleep]

As someone familiar with the process, I assure you the train is always thoroughly checked on arrival at Woking, with lookouts on the platform watching for people boarding.

Does that include going into each carriage and checking every toile for peoplet? If it does, I'm surprised at how quickly it can be done. There is I believe only three minutes for everyone to get off and checks to be done.

 

[infobleep]

Why did you have to sit in First class?

It was first class near the front and I assume it was done for safety reasons, seeing as the communications were not working. It would have been a 444 so first class usually would be near the front on route to London.

 

[TheManBehind]

Does that include going into each carriage and checking every toile for peoplet? If it does, I'm surprised at how quickly it can be done. There is I believe only three minutes for everyone to get off and checks to be done.

Yes. One I've done many a time. Normally at least one on the platform and two checking, plus the guard. You normally arrive a couple early into Woking for padding anyway, but it's been done in the 3 minutes leeway before.

It was first class near the front and I assume it was done for safety reasons, seeing as the communications were not working. It would have been a 444 so first class usually would be near the front on route to London.

Normally because it means the guard knows exactly where you are to keep an eye on you! Helps with taking multiple people back as well if everyone is in the same place - local door and exit then.

 

[greaterwest]

Does that include going into each carriage and checking every toile for peoplet? If it does, I'm surprised at how quickly it can be done. There is I believe only three minutes for everyone to get off and checks to be done.

Yes, that’s included in the process. Usually two or three members of staff will check at the same time (one per 4-6 coaches) and they are in radio contact.

Oops, just realised TheManBehind answered before me, but his answer is accurate too. There is sometimes an early arrival too, which helps the process.

 

[infobleep]

Yes. One I've done many a time. Normally at least one on the platform and two checking, plus the guard. You normally arrive a couple early into Woking for padding anyway, but it's been done in the 3 minutes leeway before.

I am impressed that can be done within 3 minutes.

I do wonder how often the train arrives in early mind you as it's following another stopper which is only 4 minutes ahead. There again there is plenty of pathing time between West Byfleet and Woking.

 

[TheManBehind]

T

I am impressed that t can be done within 3 minutes.

I do wonder how often the train arrives in early mind you as it's following another stopper which is only 4 minutes ahead. There again there is plenty of pathing time between West Byfleet and Woking.

The one ahead goes into the bay, and the oodles of time, coupled with the fact that most people for Woking are on the one ahead, means maybe 10-15 people get off. Its a relatively easy clear as far as things go!

 

[jon0844]

Would they show up in the timetable? With a crossed fingers icon next to them?

So that's what that symbol was above every Southern service last year.

 

[robbeech]

It maybe only takes 15 - 20 seconds to walk through an empty carriage, a little longer if a toilet has to be checked, and IF the train is empty, a couple of people can easily get a 12 car checked in a couple of minutes. The delay will happen when there IS someone still on board, perhaps asleep, as this is going to increase the time exponentially.

As for running ECS in service, it's unlikely that there will be many people waiting for a train after the last one of the evening has left, i suspect the number of people that miss the last train is not zero, but is not huge in relative terms. Chucking one inbetween less frequent services, of course this is handy for anyone involved but i don't see how it could ever be feasible to do.

 

[infobleep]

It maybe only takes 15 - 20 seconds to walk through an empty carriage, a little longer if a toilet has to be checked, and IF the train is empty, a couple of people can easily get a 12 car checked in a couple of minutes. The delay will happen when there IS someone still on board, perhaps asleep, as this is going to increase the time exponentially.

As for running ECS in service, it's unlikely that there will be many people waiting for a train after the last one of the evening has left, i suspect the number of people that miss the last train is not zero, but is not huge in relative terms. Chucking one inbetween less frequent services, of course this is handy for anyone involved but i don't see how it could ever be feasible to do.

So every time I'm stuck outside Woking waiting for the 18.51 ECS to leave I'll blame a passenger whose not got off soon enough. LOL!!

The trains would run so much more smoothly if we passengers didn't need to use them, track circuit failures aside mind you,

 

[The Ham]

As for running ECS in service, it's unlikely that there will be many people waiting for a train after the last one of the evening has left, i suspect the number of people that miss the last train is not zero, but is not huge in relative terms. Chucking one inbetween less frequent services, of course this is handy for anyone involved but i don't see how it could ever be feasible to do.

There are times during the evening when it's before the last service but the frequency is poorer than the rest of the day. Likewise there are movements counter peak or during times of disruption. All of which could benefit passengers getting to where they need to go.

 

[najaB]

All of which could benefit passengers getting to where they need to go.

That's true, but there is likely a good reason that they don't operate in passenger service since there's little in the way of marginal cost and the TOCs have made the decision to run them ECS.

 

[TEW]

That's true, but there is likely a good reason that they don't operate in passenger service since there's little in the way of marginal cost and the TOCs have made the decision to run them ECS.

A lot of the time, on SWR at least, it seems certain services run ECS just because they always have and nobody has looked at them really. The basic timetable dates from 2004, but the crew workings and ECS workings have changed since then. Some services which ran ECS in 2004 may have done so because they didn't carry a guard for example, but now they do.

The service in discussion above, which terminates at Woking at 1851 for example. The train then runs empty to Farnham Depot, with a brief stop at Farnham station to drop the guard off. Continuing to Farnham in service, even non stop, would make far more sense. The train might not have more than a handful of passengers on, but there is no doubt that having to lock out a 12-coach train at Woking in the evening peak is a performance risk, especially if the train is running a minute or two late. It would be far more out of the way at Farnham. Interestingly this is exactly what did happen in the temporary timetable during the Waterloo Upgrade work.

 

[A Challenge]

Interestingly this is exactly what did happen in the temporary timetable during the Waterloo Upgrade work.

Why not continuing after it then, was it just reverted without thinking?

 

[Chris M]

I have once travelled on an ECS that was changed into a passenger working from Bristol Temple Meads, calling at Swindon only. This would be circa 2002 or 2003ish I think. I've got no idea why it was changed but it conveyed about three or four people around 20 minutes earlier than the next scheduled service.

 

[Bromley boy]

That's true, but there is likely a good reason that they don't operate in passenger service since there's little in the way of marginal cost and the TOCs have made the decision to run them ECS.

One such reason being that some ECS services end up parked on loops in the middle of nowhere (to keep them out of the way), and can actually take longer than passenger services to get from point A to point B.

 

[ComUtoR]

ECS also tends to run into and out of depots and sidings.

 

[The Ham]

One such reason being that some ECS services end up parked on loops in the middle of nowhere (to keep them out of the way), and can actually take longer than passenger services to get from point A to point B.

ECS also tends to run into and out of depots and sidings.

Both of these are true, but that isn't always the case.

Also add others have said (and was the case in the ECS I traveled on) they often call at a last station before heading to the siding.

 

[infobleep]

A lot of the time, on SWR at least, it seems certain services run ECS just because they always have and nobody has looked at them really. The basic timetable dates from 2004, but the crew workings and ECS workings have changed since then. Some services which ran ECS in 2004 may have done so because they didn't carry a guard for example, but now they do.

The service in discussion above, which terminates at Woking at 1851 for example. The train then runs empty to Farnham Depot, with a brief stop at Farnham station to drop the guard off. Continuing to Farnham in service, even non stop, would make far more sense. The train might not have more than a handful of passengers on, but there is no doubt that having to lock out a 12-coach train at Woking in the evening peak is a performance risk, especially if the train is running a minute or two late. It would be far more out of the way at Farnham. Interestingly this is exactly what did happen in the temporary timetable during the Waterloo Upgrade work.

I've thought t would make sense for that train to run to Farnham in passenger service but I never knew if their was a guard on board and if so, whether they had enough hours to work it or needed to take a break at that time.

Admittedly the times I have thought this have been when my train has been stuck outside of Woking waiting for platform 5 to be free the Portsmouth train has used platform 4 or after I've bee stuck outside of Woking waiting for platform 5 to be free and the Portsmouth train has been signaled to use platform 5 ahead of us. In effect overtaking us.

The time it takes to clear the train ahead is only 3 minutes on a average. Yet small amounts of delay can build up leading to larger delays we are told. If they didn't have to do the checks the train could be away in under a minute.

In both cases I miss the train as do others. For some that would mean a 30 minute delay and I'm referring to Portsmouth stations, not any other station they might be heading to by a change of train at Guildford.