Passengers getting confused by different TOCs or liveries.

[Christmas]

I was told a funny tale of a woman who asked station staff at Stirling when the next ScotRail train to Glasgow would be, just as an SPT liveried 170 was departing the station. The woman complained that she had been waiting for over an hour for a 3 trains per hour service. The staff member asked why she hadn't boarded the departing train only for the woman to state that she had arrived on a ScotRail train and had a ScotRail ticket and had let the last three SPT trains go!

This was over a decade ago but I wonder if members have any similar stories of passengers becoming confused by the train turning up in the 'wrong' livery, no fleetnames or even unusual traction.

 

[sw1ller]

I was recently at Birmingham international when a passenger asked me which of our 2 carriages was first class. As always, I told him all our trains are first class (as a joke) and he got on. It wasn’t until New Street when he got off shouting at me that I realised he was being serious and he had paid for an Avanti 1st ticket. Still…. Made me chuckle.

 

[GodAtum]

Very easy to do at East Croydon. Often a Thameslink will come in a few minutes before a Southern. Easy for people to be rushing and get mixed up.

 

[capitalconnect]

I was told a funny tale of a woman who asked station staff at Stirling when the next ScotRail train to Glasgow would be, just as an SPT liveried 170 was departing the station. The woman complained that she had been waiting for over an hour for a 3 trains per hour service. The staff member asked why she hadn't boarded the departing train only for the woman to state that she had arrived on a ScotRail train and had a ScotRail ticket and had let the last three SPT trains go!

This was over a decade ago but I wonder if members have any similar stories of passengers becoming confused by the train turning up in the 'wrong' livery, no fleetnames or even unusual traction.

The GTR madness causes all sort of confusion with their Gatwick Express Great Northern and Southern and Thameslink brands. And even Southeastern has been bought in to the confusion too.

At one point we had all of this mess at the same time:

• GX branded trains on SN branded services
• GX branded trains on TL branded services
• SN branded trains on GX branded services
• SN branded trains on SE branded services
• SN branded trains on TL branded services
• TL branded trains on GX branded services
• TL branded trains on SE branded services
• TL branded trains on SN branded services

There were even Gatwick Express services that went through Gatwick Airport non stop.

It is not quite as bad any more but there still is a lot of confusion.

Now more recently we have GX branded trains on hire to GN with the ridiculously confusing branding on the side that says "Great Northern Operated By Gatwick Express" which is sure to cause a ton of confusion.

Govia are experts at this sort of confusion.

 

[BrettSy96]

Few years back greater Anglia hired in a couple of London Midland 153’s after one of their 156’s was involved in an incident, I remember hearing a few passengers comment things along the lines of “ this can’t be our train as this isn’t a greater Anglia train”

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

Donkeys years ago I did a shift in the ticket office at New Cross. I sold a ticket to somewhere on the underground and told the punter to catch the next silver train on platform D. After an hour he came back and told me that there hadn't been any silver trains, just white ones!

 

[lyndhurst25]

People are confused by the Merseyrail (train operating company) vs Merseyrail (PTE branding for local train services within the county of Merseyside) thing. All the stations are similarly branded. How are people supposed to know that you can only use a Merseyrail DaySaver on the Northern or Wirral Lines, but not on the City Line?

 

[Gloster]

I have heard of people who were confused by the various liveries used by South West Trains if a set with a different dominant colour to what they usually used appeared.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I'm surprised the FGW Cardiff-Taunton/Paignton loco hauled services never confused many passengers. Top and tail EWS 67s hauling a rake of blue and grey Mk2s. Or the Virgin 57s with either the Anglia or IC livery sets of Mk2s.

 

[geoffk]

People are confused by the Merseyrail (train operating company) vs Merseyrail (PTE branding for local train services within the county of Merseyside) thing. All the stations are similarly branded. How are people supposed to know that you can only use a Merseyrail DaySaver on the Northern or Wirral Lines, but not on the City Line?

Not helped by the similar names DaySaver and Saveaway.

 

[Kite159]

I wonder how many passengers have been confused by the C2C 387s on Newbury - Reading services as "they didn't say GWR"

 

[westv]

On more than one occasion I've overheard the TM speaking to another passenger on the LNER service from Kings X to Hull to tell them that their Hull Trains ticket isn't valid on all Hull trains.

 

[Nova1]

I sometimes see lost tourists at Stratford-Upon-Avon waiting longer than they need to for their trains. There's a handful of tourist traffic over to Wilmcote, served by both Chiltern and WMR. Often I see tourists waiting around for the chiltern service - maybe this is because of the very long calling pattern for the WMR services, making it hard to spot "Wilmcote"...

 

[Berliner]

On more than one occasion I've overheard the TM speaking to another passenger on the LNER service from Kings X to Hull to tell them that their Hull Trains ticket isn't valid on all Hull trains.

A few years ago ScotRail were running Hull Trains branded units between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Not sure how much confusion it caused, but it was certainly fun taking a Hull Train between the two.

 

[domcoop7]

People are confused by the Merseyrail (train operating company) vs Merseyrail (PTE branding for local train services within the county of Merseyside) thing. All the stations are similarly branded. How are people supposed to know that you can only use a Merseyrail DaySaver on the Northern or Wirral Lines, but not on the City Line?

That one I've always thought was stupid and confusing. The local stations are painted in the yellow colours and certainly a few years ago timetable leaflets and posters at local stations called it "Merseyrail".

The current rail network map - https://merseytravel.s3.amazonaws.com/Content/Bus/Route%20Maps/MerseyrailNetworkMap.pdf does show (wrongly) that the services are operated by Northern, if you look at the text at the bottom (and the website timetables correctly shows the list of operators).

But the "City Line" either exists, or it doesn't. And the fact is, it doesn't. This appears to have been done to death on another thread before https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/definition-merseytravel-city-line.168499/ and there was mention that it was a long-standing plan of Merseyside PTE to take over these services (although this seems implausible given the geography). But you don't brand something just on the hope you might be able to run it at some point in the future, maybe. As exemplified by their rail map which is just a mess (especially Earlestown!!!!!)

 

[_toommm_]

A few years ago ScotRail were running Hull Trains branded units between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Not sure how much confusion it caused, but it was certainly fun taking a Hull Train between the two.

Were they?

 

[AlbertBeale]

A related issue:

When TfL decided to take over some non-Underground rail services, and brand them as Overground, it immediately caused (and still does) confusion - since Londoners have for generations called local London "proper" trains "the overground" [without a capital O of course] to distinguish them from the Underground/tube. Only recently, someone I know from south London said to someone asking them which tube station they were heading for to get home, "I'm not near a tube - I get the overground"; the person they said this to (not a native Londoner) was confused, not being aware of a relevant Overground station. It's getting common for people to feel the need to say "with a capital O" or "with a small o" when referring to the Overground/overground.

The TfL decision might have seemed clever to their planners, but it was thoroughly stupid and obviously not a decision made by actual Londoners. The confusion in the terminology will persist until several present generations of Londoners have all died out, and even then... terminology is passed down the generations ... I learned of "the overground" from my father decades ago, and it has always been normal parlance for family and friends.

 

[Flange Squeal]

For many years, First Great Western(FGW)/GWR hired in 158s from South West Trains (SWT). I think they tended to try and keep them out of areas SWT also operated (I seem to recall they spent a lot of time on services such as Swindon to Cheltenham, or even out to Cardiff), however it wasn't unknown for the SWT-liveried units to turn up at SWT stations like Southampton Central, but actually working FGW/GWR services! I do wonder if many people jumped on them thinking they were the next Waterloo-bound SWT service from shared FGW/SWT places such as Bristol or Exeter, where SWT services begin their journeys?

Then of course at times you had such creations as Class 170s in base Midland Mainline, but with Central Trains semi-circles, and a Cross Country sticker, and Class 158s in base Transpennine Express, but with Central Trains semi-circles, and a lighter maroon lower section covering up a former First Group purple strip.

 

[Berliner]

Were they?

Yes, around 2005 I think, as scotrail took on some of their turbostars. I remember getting on them and seeing closed buffet sections and the interior was very different to normal scotrail.

There's a bit about them on this page which also references them running in Hull Trains colours for a brief period.

scot-rail.co.uk » Class 170

 

[Spartacus]

I can't wait for (First) East Coast to start, because nobody's going to get them confused with LNER, who run most of the services on the EAST COAST mainline under the InterCity EAST COAST franchise, which for the last 14 years has been operated by Virgin Trains EAST COAST, EAST COAST and National Express EAST COAST That name should have been vetoed.

 

[TRAX]

I was recently at Birmingham international when a passenger asked me which of our 2 carriages was first class. As always, I told him all our trains are first class (as a joke) and he got on. It wasn’t until New Street when he got off shouting at me that I realised he was being serious and he had paid for an Avanti 1st ticket. Still…. Made me chuckle.

Erm…..

 

[Horizon22]

I wonder how many passengers have been confused by the C2C 387s on Newbury - Reading services as "they didn't say GWR"

In a similar vein, they’re also currently confused by the “red trains” currently running around as the former GX 387s!

 

[LRV3004]

I was on a night shift in the early hours of last Thursday so caught the 2235 Manchester Piccadilly to Crewe on Wednesday evening, which was a pair of 153s. The back one was in the old East Midlands Trains blue/yellow/orange/red livery. Therefore it was a Transport for Wales service in East Midlands Trains livery with First Great Western interior!!!

 

[matt_world2004]

There must have been heaps of confusion when tfl rail started in the west and one of their class 360s had Heathrow express livery despite not being able to use Heathrow express tickets on them

 

[Scotrail314209]

Had a person ask me while boarding a railtour at Kilwinning if it was the Glasgow train... in fairness to the guy, the charter train wasn't advertised on the screens.

 

[TheDavibob]

I was catching the Cross Country train to Stansted from Cambridge, a couple of years ago (certainly prior to through-running 755s and prior to the Greater Anglia Liv Street trains terminating at Cambridge North).

Stansted train scheduled for Platform 8, where a Stansted Express emblazoned Class 379 was waiting to depart for Liverpool Street beforehand. A couple of bemused airport-bound Irish passengers hoped on and quickly hopped off again, but it could have been a lot worse for somebody who was a little less train savvy.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Nothing new - back in the 1970s a little old lady took some convincing that the train in the platform was indeed hers because the one she always took had "Inter city" written on the side (as indeed Mark 2s had done for several years, but was now being phased out) and this one didn't, having been recently repainted.

I've also met tourists on the Underground who have expected the line colours to appear on the actual trains. They also get confused because the Line name only appeared on the front of Circle Line trains, - if you wanted a District Train you had to look for one saying Richmond or Ealing or Wimbledon, not "District Line"

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

IIRC the lower concourse at Richmond has an Overground logo above platform 4/5 and an Underground logo above platform 6/7. I once saw some passengers looking confused by a District Line train sitting at platform 5.

 

[MP393]

Back when Northern hired TPX 185s on Manchester - Blackpool/Barrow services it was always quite a task to explain to passengers why they couldn’t board with a “TPE only” ticket to Preston, given it was a TPE train!

 

[47296lastduff]

When the Manchester to Holyhead "paupers' WAG" ran, quite a few people did not believe that this "inter-city" style train, with manually operated doors, could possibly be their local ATW service.