Pay gap reporting

[telstarbox]

Some of the TOCs have reported their gender pay gap statistics.

The ones I could find so far (hourly rates for men/women):

Arriva Rail London - 16% lower (mean), 44% lower (median)
Northern (Arriva) - 16%, 18%
Chiltern - 18%, 41%
CrossCountry - 32%, 29%
Arriva Trains Wales - 17%, 22%

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

These must be for senior roles I assume where salary is negotiated? As all adverts just quote a salary not a male v female salary.

 

[NSEFAN]

These must be for senior roles I assume where salary is negotiated? As all adverts just quote a salary not a male v female salary.

I think they take the salaries of all employees. The issue isn't the pay itself, the ratio is more a way of quantifying imbalance between male and female employees in roles with different seniority, as more senior roles are paid more.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

I think they take the salaries of all employees. The issue isn't the pay itself, the ratio is more a way of quantifying imbalance between male and female employees in roles with different seniority, as more senior roles are paid more.

Yes I think EasyJet didn't come out too well on the pay gap but that has been put down (for the most part) to the fact that most of their pilots are men and earn much better salaries than the cabin crew and ground staff, many of which are female. Its not a very scientific measure of anything really.

 

[deltic]

I am waiting with anticipation to see how my employer fares - not very well is my guess.

 

[NSEFAN]

Yes I think EasyJet didn't come out too well on the pay gap but that has been put down (for the most part) to the fact that most of their pilots are men and earn much better salaries than the cabin crew and ground staff, many of which are female. Its not a very scientific measure of anything really.

It certainly works on the assumption that all workers are paid fairly for the value they bring to the company. I can however think of several top managers of certain institutions and wonder how they can possibly justify their salaries...

 

[deltic]

Some of the TOCs have reported their gender pay gap statistics.

The ones I could find so far (hourly rates for men/women):

Arriva Rail London - 16% lower (mean), 44% lower (median)
Northern (Arriva) - 16%, 18%
Chiltern - 18%, 41%
CrossCountry - 32%, 29%
Arriva Trains Wales - 17%, 22%

Direct Rail Services -21% -40%
Heathrow Express +3.2% +1.1%
London Underground -11.8% -19.3%
Network Rail -7% -11%

So does HEX employ a greater percentage of female train drivers than anyone else?

 

[deltic]

Yes I think EasyJet didn't come out too well on the pay gap but that has been put down (for the most part) to the fact that most of their pilots are men and earn much better salaries than the cabin crew and ground staff, many of which are female. Its not a very scientific measure of anything really.

I think it flags up some very interesting questions - such as why is the flight deck predominantly male while cabin crew are predominantly female.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

I think it flags up some very interesting questions - such as why is the flight deck predominantly male while cabin crew are predominantly female.

Agreed - its just the headline figures are just a bit misleading to the casual observer.

 

[telstarbox]

Direct Rail Services -21% -40%
Heathrow Express +3.2% +1.1%
London Underground -11.8% -19.3%
Network Rail -7% -11%

So does HEX employ a greater percentage of female train drivers than anyone else?

Or possibly a greater percentage of managers if they are paid similarly or higher than drivers? HEX must be one of the smaller TOCs in terms of staff numbers so the salaries of one or two people could make a big difference to their results.

 

[HLE]

It’ll lead to communism

 

[t_star2001uk]

Are all of these figures comparing like for like roles. In the case of Easyjet are they comparing a male pilot with a female member of cabin crew.

 

[theking]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GENDER PAY GAP.

It is illegal in this country to pay genders different rates of pay FOR THE SAME JOB.

If 70% of train drivers on 50k are men.
But
70% of women in office roles are on 30k.

THAT IS NOT A PAY GAP.

I'm sick of this leftie liberal rubbish.

 

[deltic]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GENDER PAY GAP.

It is illegal in this country to pay genders different rates of pay FOR THE SAME JOB.

If 70% of train drivers on 50k are men.
But
70% of women in office roles are on 30k.

THAT IS NOT A PAY GAP.

I'm sick of this leftie liberal rubbish.

There are two issues here

1) jobs of equal value one of which is undertaken by men and the other by women being paid different rates - Birmingham CC got hammered on this
2) fact that some highly paid jobs are predominantly taken up by men which begs the question why and what is being done to address this

Nothing to do with leftie liberal rubbish but ensuring people have equal opportunities and the country makes best use of our most important resources - ie its people

 

[NSEFAN]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GENDER PAY GAP.

It is illegal in this country to pay genders different rates of pay FOR THE SAME JOB.

If 70% of train drivers on 50k are men.
But
70% of women in office roles are on 30k.

THAT IS NOT A PAY GAP.

I'm sick of this leftie liberal rubbish.

The name is misleading, but in the case you describe the women are earning less overall, simply because there's fewer of them in those higher-paid roles. That's simple fact and not leftie, Liberal rubbish.

Of course a desire to qunatify this issue and raise awareness of it probably is quite left wing.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

There are two issues here

1) jobs of equal value one of which is undertaken by men and the other by women being paid different rates - Birmingham CC got hammered on this
2) fact that some highly paid jobs are predominantly taken up by men which begs the question why and what is being done to address this

Nothing to do with leftie liberal rubbish but ensuring people have equal opportunities and the country makes best use of our most important resources - ie its people

Its just a horrid misnomer and I think their must be a better way of getting this information. I think it also only applies to companies with more than 250 employees, which when you consider that 99% of UK businesses employ less than 250, begs the question about how useful the data is.

 

[telstarbox]

According to the BBC - "About half of the UK workforce will be affected by the new reporting rules, which encompass 9,000 employers and more than 15 million employees."

 

[Jose Manuel]

2) fact that some highly paid jobs are predominantly taken up by men which begs the question why and what is being done to address this

My only concern with this is, do men and women have the same opportunities to apply for a, let's say driver's job? If yes, we are done. If no, please name the reasons.

But allow women by lowering the standards is moronic.

 

[deltic]

No-one is saying entry standards should be lowered or that people dont have equal opportunities to apply.

The questions that are raised is the culture welcoming to people regardless of gender - what is the atmosphere like in the workplace - where are jobs advertised, is the interview panel a mixed gender panel - does the company go out into schools/colleges to promote jobs to both genders. My non-scientific observation is that train drivers with TOCs are typically white males with slightly more diversity on the London Underground but they are certainly not representative of society as a whole and as an employer, I would be asking why - because if my jobs are not attractive to as wide a number of people as possible then it is likely I am going to have to pay more for my staff and find them harder to recruit them

 

[saracen]

What a load of cobblers. My pay is and always has been equal to my female colleagues within the same grade...ASLEF made sure of that and rightly so. The only difference would have been in paid overtime and that is worked entirely on a voluntary basis.

 

[t_star2001uk]

No-one is saying entry standards should be lowered or that people dont have equal opportunities to apply.

The questions that are raised is the culture welcoming to people regardless of gender - what is the atmosphere like in the workplace - where are jobs advertised, is the interview panel a mixed gender panel - does the company go out into schools/colleges to promote jobs to both genders. My non-scientific observation is that train drivers with TOCs are typically white males with slightly more diversity on the London Underground but they are certainly not representative of society as a whole and as an employer, I would be asking why - because if my jobs are not attractive to as wide a number of people as possible then it is likely I am going to have to pay more for my staff and find them harder to recruit

I believe the discussion is about gender pay gap and not equal opportunities. From what i can see women have always had an equal opportunity to apply for jobs within the railway industry and as Deltic has so kindly pointed out, there is no pay gap between male and female drivers, we are all paid the same rate at the company we work for. There may be differences in higher management and more senior executive positions, but for the ground floor staff within the industry male and females are paid the same rate if they are performing the same role.

 

[RJ]

Not everywhere operates on the same basis as railway operational roles, where it's common for everyone in a particular role to share a grade and pay.

Some salaried roles see people doing the same job on different salaries - this is where gender pay gaps become apparent.

It certainly works on the assumption that all workers are paid fairly for the value they bring to the company. I can however think of several top managers of certain institutions and wonder how they can possibly justify their salaries...

If that person has sufficient influence to get things done in a way which brings a net benefit to the company - either through significant savings or profits, they should be able to command a salary that reflects that. If they're not up to it I expect they are shown the door politely asked to leave before long.

 

[BestWestern]

Direct Rail Services -21% -40%
Heathrow Express +3.2% +1.1%
London Underground -11.8% -19.3%
Network Rail -7% -11%

So does HEX employ a greater percentage of female train drivers than anyone else?

Yup. They make great play of the fact that half of their drivers are women, or something like that. Very good, well done, etc etc. Personally I'm happy with the concept that the person driving me about was the best candidate for the job and knows what they're doing, regardless of whether they're wearing a bra or a pair of boxer shorts, but then I don't work in the cuddly diversity department. Probably just as well I suppose. I'm still waiting for the day I see somebody actively trying to encourage men to apply for a female dominated job role. Funny old business, this equality thing...

 

[deltic]

There are a number of initiatives aimed at attracting men into nursing and primary school teaching - both jobs dominated by women

 

[TheEdge]

I'm still waiting for the day I see somebody actively trying to encourage men to apply for a female dominated job role. Funny old business, this equality thing...

I'm yet to see a call for increased recruitment of women into the refuse handling and building sector...

 

[deltic]

Suggest you haven't been looking very hard - there are many campaigns trying to increase the number of women into the construction sector - less than 30 seconds on Google will find plenty of examples

 

[kevconnor]

I don't wish to open the argument with the conspiracy theorist so will just leave this link and encourage those who are so inclined to read through the findings from a recent Commons Committee report.

Reasons for gender pay gap are not the same as they were during the Ford Dagenham sewing machinists strike in 1968 as circumstances change but there is still a pay gap of 19%. The reasons for the gap are acknowledged as complex and deep rooted, this does include those areas of commerce where women have not been as strongly represented and a lack of overall representation of women (and other minorities) at more senior positions.

 

[whoosh]

If women want a career then they basically have to leave their children in the care of a stranger all day, and miss important bonding time with them. Many chose to care for their own children rather than work their guts out to pay a stranger to do it and then still get hassled by pressure from their manager to not take time off when their child is sick and the child minder won't have them until they are well again.
Working on the railway? Try getting childcare beween 21:00 and 06:00! That rules out most turns of duty for train drivers as you'd leave for work before six for earlies, and get home after 9pm on lates.

If you looked at pay discrepancy between single Dads/Widowers with children, maybe you'd find similar results in that progress in a career would be slowed, or reduced hours and therefore pay would have been sought.
I knew a Driver who was a Widower with children who was accommodated to work only Monday to Thursday on mornings after 07:00. However, he was obviously able to come to an agreement with a family member to care for his children all day on a Friday or Saturday as he worked his rest day quite often outside his regular times. He was probably trying to manage a challenging situation and needed the money just like many Drivers do, and it didn't bother me, but there was massive resentment amongst some that the more sociable shift was unavailable to the rest of us Monday to Thursday, yet he could do anything on his (regular) Friday and Saturday rest days. The resentment was to such an extent that someone 'keyed' his car!

I think you'll find that the Primary Carer of children generally have lower earning potential, and that most of the time this is women.

 

[deltic]

I would suggest there are many times more women working night shifts in the NHS than the total number of male train drivers. As kevconnor’s link shows a major problem is the difference in pay levels in male and female dominated jobs. As regards childcare it is interesting to note that more couples are sharing arrangements now especially where they are earning similar amounts to begin with.

 

[whoosh]

Nightshifts aren't so much of a problem actually. It's turns of duty that start very early in the morning, or finish very late in the evening.
Some drivers swap to work nightshifts precisely because they fit around family better than AMs or PMs.
I would think a nurse would probably work something like 07:00 to 19:00 Or 14:00 to 22:00 which are easier to get a family member to help you out if you are a single parent. Whereas something like 15:21 to 00:09 really isn't.