There are no longer any different t&cs for barcode / smart tickets when compared with identical orange mag stripe tickets. I am referring to travelling rights here as opposed to specific usage requirements (eg you must tap in with a smartcard season in some cases).
I've corrected an earlier typo: it was Rail Delivery Group who sent the most recent response about Clause 4.2
My response to Rail Delivery Group:
Yes clause 4.2 notes specific conditions for electronic tickets but I'm sure that general conditions in NRCoT still apply (unless specifically excluded), including the clause about excess fares when travelling with a time-restricted ticket.
How can we take this forward?
Some TOCs and some booking offices are forcing customers to buy a new ticket instead of issuing an excess fare, in circumstances where an excess can be issued. This costs the customer much more. TOC passenger charters typically contain blurb about selling the most appropriate ticket.
Clearly this doesn't always happen.
I've highlighted the case of LNER booking offices brickwalling any request to excess an electronic ticket whilst on LNER trains an excess can be issued. LNER have confirmed that to me after initially denying that excess fares can be issued on their trains.
Is it appropriate for me to continue to pursue this consumer rights issue through Rail Delivery Group or should I go elsewhere?
Latest response from Rail Delivery Group:
“Customer issue: Yes clause 4.2 notes specific conditions for electronic tickets but I'm sure that general conditions in NRCoT still apply (unless specifically excluded), including the clause about excess fares when travelling with a time-restricted ticket.
RDG: They do, but only define that a ticket can be excessed, not how
Customer issue: Some TOCs and some booking offices are forcing customers to buy a new ticket instead of issuing an excess fare, in circumstances where an excess can be issued.
RDG: The only time a ticket office would be unable to excess a ticket of any type is if the Conditions of the fulfilment method prohibits it, which in this case it does and is stated clearly by the original retailer. ”
I still have problems with this... fulfilment method prohibits what? stated clearly? where ???
In the example which triggered this thread I was denied a request to purchase an excess ticket so that I could make my return journey at peak time on a mobile off peak ticket stored in the TFWRail app.
My understanding now is that the original ticket remains valid and does not change when an excess ticket is issued. The excess ticket is only valid if presented together with the original ticket. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
My ticket was sold via TFWRail app. Digging into the app terms and conditions the app redirects to
https://tfwrail.wales/terms-and-conditions which states that all ticket purchases are subject to Trainline’s Terms and Conditions. That was well hidden. There is no direct link to trainline terms and conditions in the TFWRail app - only a link to trainline.com two URLs away.
I feel that's deceptive! I always thought I was doing business directly with the railway and I routinely and deliberately never intentionally use Trainline.com.
Nevertheless I've now reviewed Trainline.com terms and conditions online. These seem tortuous and don't clarify what the specific terms and conditions would be for my ticket or clarify whether Trainline.com or TFWrail is to be contacted should the customer wish to make changes. Trainline terms and conditions don't mention excess fare scenarios at all.
In any case, I have deduced that my original ticket remains valid and does not need to be changed. All I needed was to pay an excess fare.
More from RDG response:
"Customer issue: This costs the customer much more. TOC passenger charters typically contain blurb about selling the most appropriate ticket. Clearly this doesn't always happen.
RDG: As above, the appropriate ticket would be a new one, if the T&Cs of the original ticket state that it should only be amended in-app. Any retailer would be correct to sell a new ticket to cover the new journey."
However I've already deduced that an excess ticket doesn't require amendment of the original ticket. So in my view selling a new ticket is WRONG.
"Customer issue: Is it appropriate for me to continue to pursue this consumer rights issue through Rail Delivery Group or should I go elsewhere?
RDG: This is not a customer rights issue; the customer retains the right to change their ticket, as set out in Conditions 13.2 and 16.4, regardless of the fulfilment method of their ticket. If the customer remains unhappy with the response, they should address their concerns to the Rail Ombudsman.
The Rail Ombudsman is an independent, not-for-profit organisation. They offer a free, expert service to help sort out unresolved customer complaints about service providers within the rail industry. "
Would the forum please correct me or advise further?